General Random Thoughts: Biohazard/Resident Evil edition

[Caffeine Addict]

With the 25th anniversary coming up in a few months, I hope the alleged multiplayer game that Capcom is set to announce will be something truly awesome for us fans.

I long for the day where we're gonna get a really awesome co-op survival horror game that isn't just another boring, Fortnite type, generic shooter. For I mean, games such as Left 4 Dead ain't really what you can label as a survival horror game, being that you just shoot things, and nothing else. There should be skills for each character and you should feel on edge, so it feels way more balanced.

 

[Goldsickle]

However, this is not the same, because the level design of classic games is close to the open world in the sense that you can freely move around locations and choose routes.

Classic RE is pretty linear.

It gives you the "illusion of not-so linear" because you can choose where you want to go first but there are still some specific story segments that appear in order.
RE1 & its remake makes you think it's some sort of "mini open world" but you're actually being funneled, thanks to those doors that are "locked from the other side".
These ensure that you progress and unfold the story in a specific way.

Games in the series like Resident Evil 5 are more like a linear chain of arenas connected by corridors, along which you need to move, but only move forward.

RE5 has its "open world" and "exploration" moments, like the marshland stage or any stages where you can progress in your own order.
RE6 also has the Chinese mansion stage or the Edonian streets with the Ogromans.

As someone who has played all the numbered RE games, I could say they all have their linear and progress-in-own-order moments.

And the cover system really sucks. It seems to me that this is why The Mercenaries reveal the combat system better, since they give you an open arena and do not limit your movements.

To me, that's the flaw with RE6's level design.

Notice that in RE4 & RE5, the Mercenaries stages for those are from existing story mode maps with minor edits?
From the get-go, the story maps in RE4 & RE5 are pretty open, like the village and public assembly.

But in RE6, the stages are so narrow and cramped, that they require heavy edits to make them "Mercenaries-worthy".
The only map I remember from the top of my head that didn't require much edits was the Edonian map, since it was already opened up in the story mode.

I think I might have enjoyed RE6 a whole lot more if they didn't make cramped up maps too much.

 

[russident]

Classic RE is pretty linear.

Choosing a route in my context doesn't necessarily have to mean plot. This is your road in the process of backtracking, when you need to go back and choose a route if you want to avoid fighting with enemies or know that there are corridors in which they will appear. This also applies to inventory management, which motivates you to return, but at the same time motivates you to plan your route.

It's cool when someone knows exactly what items they need to take and where to carry them in what order to save as much time as possible, but the usual Resident Evil experience doesn't work that way. You need to at least check all the doors for what kind of locks they have, so that later, when you find the key, you know where you need to go.

This is not how games like Resident Evil 5 are designed. Games like Resident Evil 5 consist of a set of separate levels, the design of which may differ, but this is not Metroidvania.

 

[Caffeine Addict]

We need a co-op game where the characters have degreeing strengths, skills, and whatnot. Not too overkill, eh?

 

[mert20004]

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[Goldsickle]

This is your road in the process of backtracking, when you need to go back and choose a route if you want to avoid fighting with enemies or know that there are corridors in which they will appear.

Being able to backtrack does not change that the progression is pretty linear.
Even if you were to consider first time players, it doesn't change how the game structure is, whether the player is aware of it or not.
If I designed a game to be approached in a certain order (e.g. Arrowhead > Book Of Curses > Sword Key), then that's just how it is, whether the player knows what to do or not.

As I mentioned, the doors that are "locked from the other side" funnels you and ensures that you progress through the areas in a specific manner.
The arrangement also ensures that you do things in order, like how you are 100% guaranteed to bump into Rebecca first before getting the complete music notes to play the piano or how you will need to encounter Lisa before exploring the guardhouse, since you need the crank from her hut.

If you asked me 20 years ago, I might have agreed with the idea that classic RE is "non-linear" or "not-so-linear".
To me, nowadays that title belongs to more open-ended games, like Deus Ex: Mankind Divided or Dishonored 2.

Besides re4 and re5 have their own fair share of narrow levels too.

I'm talking about how maps of RE4 & RE5 don't require much edits for Mercenaries.
For example, the village from RE4 & the public assembly from RE5.
There are some minor edits, like being able to climb up certain houses or some barricades removed but it remain slightly familiar with what you experienced in the story mode.

RE6 story mode maps however, are so cramped, they require large edits to make it open enough for Mercenaries.
Urban Chaos for example seems to be based on the early Chris maps but I don't recall the streets being so opened up like that, with being able to climb up buses or run inside arcades and stores.

 

[mert20004]

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[Goldsickle]

Besides narrow or not, it's still possible to perform dodges and counters even at narrow maps. Not to mention mercenaries in re6 also has some cramped parts.

Still, as I said "Mercenaries-worthy".
Narrow paths in those stages still lets you circle around pop up elsewhere.
But the story mode paths in RE6 are always funneled and shoehorning.

 

[russident]

If I designed a game to be approached in a certain order (e.g. Arrowhead > Book Of Curses > Sword Key), then that's just how it is, whether the player knows what to do or not.

But when you take this key, you have a choice of several doors located in different wings of the mansion. Yes, your progression is still linear, because the plot requires you to take certain actions to move forward, but your decisions about where to go can have a strong impact on the entire gameplay.

For example, if at the beginning of the original first game you go to the east wing of the second floor, then you will certainly find that the door leading to the first floor is closed from the inside, but you have already spent resources on enemies, so this will change how you continue to play. After that, I tried to run through enemies or even let them bite me.

The authors also use different methods to put you in front of the choices: for example, the door handle, which can break if you use it, as well as corridors in which enemies can appear, which you may not want to face, so you want to take a different path and go around this place. In addition, there are also optional quests like finding blue and yellow stones, but you need to visit the corridor, in which several enemies appeared, which can then mutate into more dangerous entities, if you do not burn them first.

The episode in the swamp from Resident Evil 5, which I think you mentioned, is essentially a large level consisting of several mini-arenas that you can choose from in an involuntary order. Nothing more. Moreover, if after completing the quest, there may be inaccessible areas in the mansion that you will return to for almost the entire game, as well as left herbs and other resources that I might want to return to at any convenient time, you will never return to the swamp again.

 

[Goldsickle]

For example, if at the beginning of the original first game you go to the east wing of the second floor, then you will certainly find that the door leading to the first floor is closed from the inside, but you have already spent resources on enemies, so this will change how you continue to play. After that, I tried to run through enemies or even let them bite me.

Ultimately, the order of progression is still the same.
You get the Sword Key which leads to getting the Armor Key, which helps with getting the Shield Key & Death Masks.
The player can get lost and wander around all they want but it doesn't change that when the developers laid out the progression, there is a specific order.
Even if there are choices where you can go left or right first, doesn't change that the player is still shoehorned to progress the same way.

If we are really talking about formatting, then it's relevant to see it from the developer's perspective, not how the player chooses to screw around and get lost.

The episode in the swamp from Resident Evil 5, which I think you mentioned, is essentially a large level consisting of several mini-arenas that you can choose from in an involuntary order. Nothing more.

Overall, it's essentially the same as classic RE: linear game but with some situations where you can choose your order before being shoehorned.

In the mansion, you are choosing the order of how you're getting the death masks before you linearly exit the mansion and make your way to the guardhouse.
REmake is linear enough that it's totally possible to segment the game into chapters.
From the intro to obtaining the Sword Key is kinda "chapter 1".
From the Dog Whistle to Dog Collar to Imitation Of A Key and Armor Key could be "chapter 2".

 

[russident]

Even if there are choices where you can go left or right first, doesn't change that the player is still shoehorned to progress the same way.

If we are really talking about formatting, then it's relevant to see it from the developer's perspective, not how the player chooses to screw around and get lost.

I don't see much point in that. There is a big difference why these games, having similar elements, give the player completely different experiences.

 

[Goldsickle]

I don't see much point in that. There is a big difference why these games, having similar elements, give the player completely different experiences.

There are elements of exploration, puzzle solving, backtracking, choose-your-own-order, combat, fight-or-flight in both old and new games.
Even if it's experienced in a slightly different manner between old and new, the elements are there.

The only real differentiating traits would be that the older games did not have any visible chapter progression, have limited resources and limited saving.
There might be some more I missed but these are the most tangible differences.

 

[russident]

The only real differentiating traits would be that the older games did not have any visible chapter progression, have limited resources and limited saving.

In classic games, you have a world, some segments of which are not available, but which you open in the process. Progression does not limit your movement, so you can freely visit different locations, even if there is no strict plot need. Resident Evil 5 is not a Metroidvania game.

 

[Goldsickle]

In classic games, you have a world, some segments of which are not available, but which you open in the process. Progression does not limit your movement, so you can freely visit different locations, even if there is no strict plot need. Resident Evil 5 is not a Metroidvania game.

Ultimately, it's still linear.
You can wander off here and there but it doesn't change that you're still getting the Arrowhead, so you can get the Sword Key, so you can get the Armor Key, so you can get the Shield Key, so you can get the Death Masks in every single playthrough.

 

[russident]

Ultimately, it's still linear.
You can wander off here and there but it doesn't change that you're still getting the Arrowhead, so you can get the Sword Key, so you can get the Armor Key, so you can get the Shield Key, so you can get the Death Masks in every single playthrough.

But that doesn't make these level designs the same. These are two different types that have different effects on game design. For example, in older games, developers know which places the player goes often and can visit several times, so they can add enemies there. This will affect either your route (you can spend more time, but take a safe route) or the waste of resources (you can join the battle). Or, due to inventory limitation, I might not take the green herb in the east wing, so that I can come back for it later when I've already left the mansion.

The progression of Resident Evil 5 forces you to go forward. Open locations there are only for a specific task, and then you go to another level.

 

[Goldsickle]

But that doesn't make these level designs the same.

Obviously not 100% the same but if you bothered to read what I typed, certain elements exists in both old and new games.

Don't know why this bothers you so much.
It's not like the format is gone forever.
It still turns up in RE7 and RE2 remake.

 

[russident]

Nah, I wouldn't say I'm bothered. And I even forgot how this discussion started, lol. I feel like I'm just situationally writing answers.

 

[mert20004]

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[russident]

I don't say this very often in discussions of the game, but my hometown was built on swamps. I am very familiar with this stench, as well as the stench of mold. A good friend of mine even caught chronic bronchitis due to mold. So when I visit the old house and swamps in the game, it's like the smells and memories come back to me. I think this is all possible thanks to the realistic graphics and excellent sound design, which create an immersive experience.

I'm also a big fan of Louisiana. I really like this state for its aloofness, so I will definitely have to go there someday.

It's a shame that Southern Gothic is a fairly rare genre in games. Bayou, bald cypress trees, alligators, dark and abandoned plantations, ghosts and large basements where slaves could have lived generations ago. All of this has a strong dark energy that I would like to see more often in games.

I think what I like most about the game's locations is environmental storytelling. The player can not only get information from items, but also notice some artistic hints that support the themes of the game. For example, when old Eveline is sitting on the second floor in the main hall, you can see that above her hangs a picture of a little girl holding on to a chair. I think I just like to notice these details that try to tell people a story in different ways.

 

[Caffeine Addict]

So, what do you think this new multiplayer game will be about?