General Blue Umbrella

[News Bot]

Several times across several years is more than enough, and there is no indication of that either like most of your assertions. Still we come back to your theory being mostly rationalization attempts around a single unverified source rather than gleaning information.

Chris was meant to find out about Umbrella's darkside, which would be more impactful if he was with them for a while already, but you seem to think nothing could have changed between the guide and NAH's actual release. Lucas originally surviving and Clancy being the final boss, etc.

Lucas' story in Not A Hero is about those organizations "only interested in the Mold" (which creates Eveline), and the Research Report 1 makes it quite clear that the two redacted organizations are interested in Eveline as a B.O.W. Your excuse falls apart when put up against the game itself.

The guides contain no such thing

Oh I forgot you're the one who translated them. Let's see what the BIO5 Kaitai Shinsho book says:

Mutating into something quite different from the creature that emerged from the Plaga used by the ringleaders of the Southern Europe Incident, we're guessing that this was an improved Plaga species similar to that of the subordinate Plaga species.

It's "spelled out for us" but you can't actually show it because it's inference presented as "gospel." If the system were develped in 2017, Chris would be the first adviser with access to it, and "advisers" would merely refer to those who join after him. You simply cannot know this one way or the other.

You say I'm dismissive but as soon as someone brings up the mere notion of Wesker returning you are there to try and shut it down, wherever it might be on the Internet, all the while claiming there's "nothing to it" and pretending everyone but you is simply misinterpreting everything. Projection at its finest.

I'm not saying you're totally wrong either, we don't know enough about many aspects of 7's story. You just think you're correct with an argument that isn't as strong as you think.

 

[TheBatMan]

Working for someone as an advisor several times across several years is nothing and not comparable at all to working full time for a regular employer. The source is there regardless and I'm not willing to write it off as a mistake or a changed idea just because it doesn't seem to correlate with your personal opinion.


There's no point speculating about what changed until we actually have a solid idea of what the original scenario was. Clancy was never the final boss as his body is found within the vanilla game.


Your theory about Lucas and the research report with redacted organisations seems suspiciously like rationalization attempts around a single source rather than gleaning information. But hey, it's your favored theory so that's cool right? As usual, nothing I'm saying falls apart you are just dismissive of it because it doesn't match your own ideas.


What happened to Irving was clarified in the Archives book. Remember what I said about a separate source overruling something? I have no problem with that, and the same will be said of Chris and his investigation team. But until such source comes along...


Why if the UAS was developed in 2017 would Chris be the first to have access to it exactly? Why does that have to be so?


It's been 9 years since his death, 2 years since Umbrella Corps, and still nothing. Am I wrong exactly? How about you come back and moan about this when I'm actually wrong?


So if you are not saying I am necessarily wrong about these points then stop being so instantly dismissive of everything. The source is there at the end of the day contained within a book that provides essential background information not contained within the game and you are making assumptions just the same. As I keep saying, if you don't like my opinions, feel free to ignore them. Sometimes it's like you are just fishing for conflict. You'd do well to just be more civil and accept that people have an alternative point of view to your own.

 

[Evil Resident]

Petty insults aside, you both make good points. But:

Clancy was never the final boss as his body is found within the vanilla game.

According to Dusk Golem, this isn't true, and that body was misdirection.

2 years since Umbrella Corps, and still nothing

They haven't even had a chance to explore BU in depth, let alone make character reveals. They are going slow with this.

 

[News Bot]

There's no point speculating about what changed until we actually have a solid idea of what the original scenario was. Clancy was never the final boss as his body is found within the vanilla game.

Source besides you that actually says that please. The burnt corpse was intentional misdirection for his appearance as the final boss in Not A Hero, which the earlier DLCs were building up to. Clancy adapted to the E-Type differently from the other hosts. It's also the reason for the goofy black screen during Lucas' "transformation." Lucas dying was a late change. My source has had verified inside information on Not A Hero and REmake 2 for over a year now, you do not. Some of us do have a solid idea what the original scenario was.

What happened to Irving was clarified in the Archives book. Remember what I said about a separate source overruling something? I have no problem with that, and the same will be said of Chris and his investigation team. But until such source comes along...

So what one guide writer says is not in fact gospel? The thing about this is that you simply deny there is any contradiction or incongruence because based guidebook.

Why if the UAS was developed in 2017 would Chris be the first to have access to it exactly? Why does that have to be so?

Chris is the only known BSAA adviser to Umbrella in 2017 and it is most likely his first mission with them. There could be others but no source alludes to them pre-2017. You can insist otherwise if you like but it boils down to you don't know.

Your theory about Lucas and the research report with redacted organisations seems suspiciously like rationalization attempts around a single source rather than gleaning information. But hey, it's your favored theory so that's cool right? As usual, nothing I'm saying falls apart you are just dismissive of it because it doesn't match your own ideas.

Lucas states in Not A Hero that there are organizations and "people" besides Umbrella and The Connections interested in the E-Type and one ends up agreeing to buy the data. It just so happens that at least two interested but unknown organizations were already referenced in the main story in the file. All of whom are candidates for attempting to capture Eveline since the relevant file is neither specific nor definitively singular or plural. That's gleaning information. I'll assume you just forget about these facts.

It's been 9 years since his death, 2 years since Umbrella Corps, and still nothing. Am I wrong exactly? How about you come back and moan about this when I'm actually wrong?

There is no time limit, but it's good to know the dog whistle still works.

 

[Weskers Report]

According to Dusk Golem, this isn't true, and that body was misdirection.

Clancy’s body was charred to a crisp with a sign saying ‘You’re Next’ that Lucas left for Ethan.


We saw how Clancy’s faith played out in the Bday VHS tape.

Dusk is not the same as from a developer quote.

 

[News Bot]

Clancy’s body was charred to a crisp with a sign saying ‘You’re Next’ that Lucas left for Ethan.

Clancy and Ethan were not the only ones Lucas subjected to that trap. You know there's no developer saying he died either, right?

 

[Weskers Report]

There’s no developer quote telling us that Lisa Trevor or Tyrant got killed on Heliport with Rocket Launcher, but we can use common sense.

 

[News Bot]

Denial is not common sense.

 

[Evil Resident]

Actually, It wouldn't be too far out there if Lisa survived. She inherited immortality from Progenitor, after all. Not that that's here nor there, heh.


Dusk Golem has proven himself. Question is, was Clancy's survival scrapped?

 

[News Bot]

Question is, was Clancy's survival scrapped?

It's a safe assumption since they had an easy out with a corpse already being there. But like other aspects of 7, we don't know for sure. It's a shame either way since his side-story seemed like it had some potential.

 

[Weskers Report]

It's been 9 years since his death, 2 years since Umbrella Corps, and still nothing. Am I wrong exactly? How about you come back and moan about this when I'm actually wrong?

BU going public in 2007 is what did it for me.


At the time Chris and Sheva were running around in Africa Umbrella had already been present for two years.


They were also already public 5 years when Carla tried to use their name to strike fear to the public as well.


These types of plotholes hurt the Wesker theories.

 

[News Bot]

I don't see why Blue Umbrella's existence, even if it was functioning in 2007 like in 2017, has any impact on Wesker since it was established after he went underground in 2006. The "legendary executive" doesn't appear until 2012, that we know of.

 

[Weskers Report]

I don't see why Blue Umbrella's existence, even if it was functioning in 2007 like in 2017, has any impact on Wesker since it was established after he went underground in 2006. The "legendary executive" doesn't appear until 2012, that we know of.

Eh? No, none of the existing plotline we used to talk about works anymore.


BU went public in 2007 yet their ‘resurrection is at hand’ in 2015/2016?

And...

Their still a mysterious organization in 2014 according to Heavenly Island?


I used to the think Albert’s voice in the Mulitplayer meant something and even took the manga seriously.

I thought it would all tie in beautifully with UC as Albert would have premonitions about his return, it was wonderfully written.


Basically if they were funded in 2007 but hadn’t gone public for another 10 years it would’ve been alright.

But there’s nothing suggesting they didn’t.


I mean we now know they weren’t doing CQBZ until 2011 but rather going on several missions with B.S.A.A. is the most likely and reasonable answer.


There’s something else that bothers me,

before UC’s release Kawata said Umbrella was still gone but now this quote doesn’t hold up because we don’t know if its Chief Executives were replaced by the top brass of Wesker’s Organization.


furthermore Blue Umbrella being a nickname for the reborn Umbrella Corporation doesn‘t make sense as it already went public in 2007 as a PMC.


therefore Red Umbrella is not needed for a resurrection as again, the resurrection already took place in 2007.

we can come to the conclusion then that the Red is most likely a branch of special elite force and a successor to the U.B.C.S. just as 3A7 is a successor to Hunk.

they sound more like the true PMC of the company.

They are the elite unit, the ’Umbrella Corps.’


I think now the weapons are named after Wesker purely because they were from his research and designs and to fool the world (of course they are evil) that naming technology to do good after a man that did so much evil is another way of atonement, same reason why they named themselves ’Umbrella’ again.


something else is very odd here, in Umbrella Corps Albert‘s custom model is referred to as “Samurai Edge“ but instead the standard model ”Samurai Edge SP” ended up being modified to the Albert-01 and in Not A Hero being used by Chris. Perhaps Wesker’s blueprints were getting dated.


in a nutshell, nothing of this company stands out. all the companies in Umbrella Corps had special units.

big deal.

in Heavenly Island Sheng Ya had deployed their elite force.

the patches in the game are special force units and Japanese localization just has the company names.

its all very generic I truly think now, this BU is just another company tbh and no big behind the scenes Albert reveal or even Wesker fanatic, just doesn’t hold up much anymore.


there’s abosoutely no reason why the company had to be named Umbrella or why it had to be Chris, its just a soft reboot and desparation for familiarity on Capcom’s part.


one interesting thing to note is that Umbrella Corps sold the Zombie Jammer to Sheng Ya and it mentions in the manga ’a certain pharmaceutical company pressured UC’s jammer engineers.’

it’s just interesting because it points out Sheng Ya is a pharma company.

 

[News Bot]

None of that presents a problem to the possibility of Wesker returning in some form and hinges on a lack of information rather than an examination of it. There is no indication that Umbrella operated in 2007 like it eventually does in 2017.

 

[TheBatMan]

Clancy was never the final boss as his body is found within the vanilla game.

Dusk Golem got a lot incorrect about Not A Hero. In fact the only thing he got right was Chris' mistrust of Umbrella which pretty much every player in the world could have correctly guessed.

Source besides you that actually says that please. The burnt corpse was intentional misdirection for his appearance as the final boss in Not A Hero, which the earlier DLCs were building up to. Clancy adapted to the E-Type differently from the other hosts. It's also the reason for the goofy black screen during Lucas' "transformation." Lucas dying was a late change. My source has had verified inside information on Not A Hero and REmake 2 for over a year now, you do not. Some of us do have a solid idea what the original scenario was.

It's quite obviously Clancy's corpse in the main game and it always was. The body would not be there at all otherwise. Having an unrelated corpse as 'misdirection' simply doesn't work because the player assumes Clancy died anyway having watched the tape. Having a different charred body wouldn't make any difference to a surprise reveal at the end. You'll get nowhere with a counter argument unless you can provide some actual proof that confirms otherwise.

So what one guide writer says is not in fact gospel? The thing about this is that you simply deny there is any contradiction or incongruence because based guidebook.

As I've said numerous times now it stays gospel until something else comes along and says otherwise. At least the passage about Irving in the book admits to being speculated about. As I recall you were the one who insisted for years it solved the whole ending of RE4 with Ada sending this modified Plaga to Wesker and wouldn't hear any different until you were actually shown to be incorrect, yet again.

Lucas states in Not A Hero that there are organizations and "people" besides Umbrella and The Connections interested in the E-Type and one ends up agreeing to buy the data. It just so happens that at least two interested but unknown organizations were already referenced in the main story in the file. All of whom are candidates for attempting to capture Eveline since the relevant file is neither specific nor definitively singular or plural. That's gleaning information. I'll assume you just forget about these facts.

Right, and do these other organisations interested in the E-Series data have Chris working for them too? He sure gets around these days.

Chris is the only known BSAA adviser to Umbrella in 2017 and it is most likely his first mission with them. There could be others but no source alludes to them pre-2017. You can insist otherwise if you like but it boils down to you don't know.

Yeah, so you don't know either, so you are not really in a position to shoot down any theory are you? There is no confirmed source stating it is Chris' first mission, we have another that suggests otherwise, and another that suggests BSAA members (not singular) have access to the UAS, implying Chris is not on his own.

There is no time limit, but it's good to know the dog whistle still works.

And until such a time comes around (you'll be waiting a long time) he remains very dead. So I am not in fact wrong at all.

 

[News Bot]

Dusk Golem got a lot incorrect about Not A Hero. In fact the only thing he got right was Chris' mistrust of Umbrella which pretty much every player in the world could have correctly guessed.

Much of Dusk Golem's information came from before Not A Hero was restarted, so like many things, there's simply no way you can know this and the only retort you have is "nuh uh." Citation needed.

It's quite obviously Clancy's corpse in the main game and it always was.

Should be able to find a source for that then.

As I've said numerous times now it stays gospel until something else comes along and says otherwise. At least the passage about Irving in the book admits to being speculated about. As I recall you were the one who insisted for years it solved the whole ending of RE4 with Ada sending this modified Plaga to Wesker and wouldn't hear any different until you were actually shown to be incorrect, yet again.

That was before I translated things myself and put too much faith in others to do it accurately, just as I've corrected mistakes made by the translators you've paid. But it's cute that you're able to drag something up from 9 years ago.

Right, and do these other organisations interested in the E-Series data have Chris working for them too? He sure gets around these days.

Never implied that. There are simply more organizations than Umbrella interested in the E-Type and "hostile organization" may refer to any one of them besides Umbrella.

Yeah, so you don't know either, so you are not really in a position to shoot down any theory are you? There is no confirmed source stating it is Chris' first mission, we have another that suggests otherwise, and another that suggests BSAA members (not singular) have access to the UAS, implying Chris is not on his own.

I never said there was a confirmed source. In fact I've stated multiple times that we don't know enough about the story, but obviously you know everything. There is just no verifiable source dictating that he has been an adviser with Umbrella for three years, and none to verify that he has been trying to capture Eveline rather than kill her. Also it's cute that you declare "members" not to be singular, since the text is ambiguous (BSAA隊員). It can also be written as:

"but a BSAA member invited to Blue Umbrella as an adviser is authorized and access with the two dimensional code is possible from the Thor's Hammer weapon code label.

In which case it could be speaking generally or directly referring to Chris.

 

[TheBatMan]

Much of Dusk Golem's information came from before Not A Hero was restarted, so like many things, there's simply no way you can know this and the only retort you have is "nuh uh." Citation needed.

Dusk Golem said Clancy was going to be the final boss weeks before the DLC was released and months after the scenario was restarted. He was incorrect. You are basing your claims off guesswork by someone who had one eye on the development of Not A Hero who had access to some information but admitted numerous times he did not know much about the scenario. He wasn't maliciously trying to spread misinformation, he was just wrong.

Should be able to find a source for that then.

A source isn't required when the game all but spells it out for you. You watch the tape where Clancy is burned alive in a room, then come across a burned corpse with the code for said room with the message 'you're next' and you then go into the same room and repeat same experiment. How much more obvious must it be for you, especially as no other resolution for Clancy is ever given? You are the one making wild accusations about 'misdirection', which doesn't actually work, so cough up some proof for your own theories for a change instead of shooting down the obvious. Wait, let me guess - there is none?

That was before I translated things myself and put too much faith in others to do it accurately, just as I've corrected mistakes made by the translators you've paid. But it's cute that you're able to drag something up from 9 years ago.

Oh really, so you were taking credit for others work behind the scenes even way back then? You claimed to have 'solved' the problem after all. The translators I used were professional speakers who translated Japanese-English for a living. Any errors were down to the poor quality of the scans I sent them at the time, which I also told you about at the time. And you're welcome for all that work by the way.

I'd still trust them over your method of Abbyfinereader, google translate and a Japanese dictionary any day. Plenty of people have questioned your own efforts publicly and privately over the years and things have been checked with numerous differences found so your work may not be as accurate as you like to think it is. This was instigated and carried out by others before you ask, nothing to do with me.


I recall you (incorrectly) called me out on supposed work I'd done for this website 9 years ago, so it's cute you can do that first - then try and mock others for doing the same.

Never implied that. There are simply more organizations than Umbrella interested in the E-Type and "hostile organization" may refer to any one of them besides Umbrella.

You did imply it by using the two redacted organisations in the file as stating someone else besides Umbrella or the BSAA could be looking for Eveline in 2014, meaning Chris must be working with one of them. Considering Umbrella are 'hostile' to The Connections, and Chris is leading an Umbrella team to hunt Eveline down in 2017, its a reasonable assumption to claim Chris was with Umbrella in 2014, solidified even more by the fact that the BSAA are not mentioned outright if it was them when there is absolutely no reason not to. Whoever it ends up being is not important to me, but that's where the evidence points to as things stand.

I never said there was a confirmed source. In fact I've stated multiple times that we don't know enough about the story, but obviously you know everything. There is just no verifiable source dictating that he has been an adviser with Umbrella for three years, and none to verify that he has been trying to capture Eveline rather than kill her.

Have I stated I know everything? I'm simply pitching my own theories and ideas on a discussion board, which for some reason you have a problem with - likely because they simply don't match up to your own. I said I was 'convinced' Chris was with Umbrella, I never said it was as a confirmed fact and no one else is allowed to think otherwise. You just don't like alternative points of view being submitted because you like to dictate what is fact and what isn't - you should at least be honest with yourself enough to admit that by now. At least everyone else on here can accept a different opinion with some merit.

There is a source that suggests Chris may have been an advisor for three years - the same source you have used as proof that Umbrella PMC are run by the executives of the rival company thanks to the correlation chart. But you seem happy to accept one as truth and happy to discard the other as a mistake or just made-up completely because you don't like it. Therein lies your problem. And there is no source at all that says it is Chris' first mission with them in 2017, you are just assuming that based on your take on the script. Yet you accept it as truth and rubbish any possible suggestion to the contrary because you don't like it. You change the rules for every debate you become involved in.


Also it's cute that you declare "members" not to be singular, since the text is ambiguous (BSAA隊員). It can also be written as:

"but a BSAA member invited to Blue Umbrella as an adviser is authorized and access with the two dimensional code is possible from the Thor's Hammer weapon code label.

But it's not confirmed singular either is it when it can be interpreted as both. Even your translation above still suggests multiple people and not just something that is exclusive to Chris Redfield, something else solidified by the the journalist spotting BSAA members using Umbrella's weapons. So either other BSAA members have used Thor's Hammer and have access to the system, or the journalist saw Chris using it meaning Lurking Fear was not his first mission with Umbrella.


I think we're done here kiddo, I don't want to derail this thread any further. If you cannot disprove anything I say, stop jumping in and being all hostile because my ideas do not agree with your own. But if you want to act a little more adult and have a proper discussion and debate about these topics without resorting to personal attacks and dismissing things you can't actually prove then I'd be happy to do so.

 

[News Bot]

Dusk Golem said Clancy was going to be the final boss weeks before the DLC was released and months after the scenario was restarted.

He was going to be, and wasn't. Just as Lucas was going to be arrested and died instead. This is like me talking about beta material and you crying "not true!"

A source isn't required

It is if you're saying one source is wrong.

Oh really, so you were taking credit for others work behind the scenes even way back then? You claimed to have 'solved' the problem after all.

I never claimed to have "solved" it personally, and the translations were credited to whoever did them at the time (BioTech in that instance).

Plenty of people have questioned your own efforts publicly and privately over the years and things have been checked with numerous differences found so your work may not be as accurate as you like to think it is.

Curious you've never brought any of that up before in 9 years, huh? And you're more than happy to use my translations, so is this an actual criticism or pettiness? If you take five translators and give them the same thing to translate, there are going to be "differences" in every translation, whether those differences are wrong or inaccurate is another story altogether, and one you aren't equipped for.

But you seem happy to accept one as truth and happy to discard the other as a mistake or just made-up completely because you don't like it.

Here's the part you miss: there is other evidence and other connections supporting the rival company theory which can be found within and without the game. Your theory hinges on a single outside source written before Not A Hero's release and not corroborated by the game, meanwhile you write off Dusk Golem for also talking about pre-release and the end result being different.

So either other BSAA members have used Thor's Hammer

This we already know since the BSAA tests and uses Umbrella's guns. Doesn't have anything implicitly to do with advisers, and the text doesn't make it clear either way. You can find that in the AWM01 Archives "we" translated.

But it's not confirmed singular either is it when it can be interpreted as both.

Exactly, glad we could reach an understanding.

I think we're done here kiddo

You say this almost every time and it rarely turns out to be the case. "Kiddo" makes you more mature, I'm sure.

 

[Evil Resident]

@Weskers Report should I take your last comment seriously and try to respond? Or will you dismiss what I have to say and stick to the imaginary scenerio you invented?


The 2007 date SUPPORTS the many connections and plot points we have observed.

 

[Weskers Report]

I already explained in my previous post.


plus, regarldess of date, if you stop to think about it the whole premise hinges on the book.

it's the only source that can be used to say Umbrella is ran by the rival company.

Umbrella Corps just provides hints.

we've taken this thing too far tbh.


@News Bot, where/how did you learn Japanese btw? was it through Welsh? he learned it first then taught you? just curious.