General Blue Umbrella

[Weskers Report]

It doesn’t work like that.

You can’t keep picking and choose plot elements for you’re convenience.

Uroboros is extremely volatile to heat period.

Uroboros pustules are sensitive to heat, not Uroboros humans.

 

[Mark5]

@Weskers Report

that is a good point, there no way to deny Uroboros weakness is extreme heat and lava covers that, so to negate that already makes capcom resort to retroactive continuity.

If Wesker regeneration was identical to Jack Baker mold type then "maybe" (and that´s a very slim maybe) a sliver of his brain could have been ejected from his skull after being hit and miraculously regenerate but even then Wesker does not have the hivemind to "backup" his personality so when he finally regenerates his brains and body he won´t have memories and would be a blank slate.

Alex Wesker attempted suicide with a handgun then mutated with T-Phobos and apparently didn´t lack any of her memories however that was only a single bullet not a grenade or rocket.

There is no way that after hit by 2 rockets plus consumed by lava anything with a weakness such extreme temperatures could resist (not even a small piece, we are talking about melting lava, not dust, nor gas).

Heck i don´t know if even Wade Wilson could survive for much time after being surrounded and consumed by lava (well at least before he got cursed with immortality by Thanos) and Deadpool is considered a top "healer" (i know they have nothing to do with Progenitor Virus or Uroboros but that makes the regen better actually since its not depending on serums to be stable and Logan´s Adamantium may give him the edge to survive all this... yes that is over the top power and ridiculous but in the comics adamantium is so tough that it can´t be destroyed not even after exposed to extremely high temperatures).

The way i see there would be no way to bring the original Wesker back (without someone using time travel to prevent his death) only thing they could do is using a clone or some other individual and then transfer his digital mind to this vessel, and even then it would have to explain how the hell Wesker or Alex Wesker did it.

Not even Spencer knew about Alex true immortality plan and he was the one funding all of Alex´s research... Albert surviving through a digital mind copy would definetly turn out to be inconsistent with what was revealed in Rev 2.

So all in all the convenient explanations of cloning, mind transfer would still feel too forced.

And any other ressurection theory would most likely involve supernatural excuses or time travel, and as we know the RE Universe isn´t used to rely on these types of subjects, and probably won´t ever attempt to do so.

 

[Weskers Report]

It’s important to note that Uroboros is extremely volatile to heat but at the sametime Albert did achieve immortality as explained in the REV2 guidebook.

One could thefore theorize that his tissue matter could not be completly destroyed.


Whether or not he could retain his thoughts after the fact is an entirely other matter.

There’s nothing that suggests he couldn’t, thus allowing Alex’s researchers to obtain his tissue materials and copying his thoughts down to a computer then to a new body.


@TheBatMan I hear yeah about mentioning on REV2 came after the fact and Albert was killed off in 5 but if we call this out then 50% of story materials would go out the window along with it.

Capcom does tend to add material a lot that they didn’t get to do so originally along with many other other factors but they rarely retcon.

To me a retcon is a visible change such as ‘S’ turning into Tricell.


Lisa Trevor for instance was all in written materials for Bio1 96’ but was cut then subsequently put into Remake in 2002.


@Mark it’s imprtant to note that Alex felt fear the minute she pulled the trigger and thus survived instead.

She would not have literally jumped into Natalia though.

Essentially there wasn’t two of her, the mind transfer goes from person to computer to other person.

That is why she freaks out when seeing her ‘other’ self.

its interesting that her frail body and terminal condition came about given that she had the genes to survive the experimental virus just like Albert.

perhaps the outlying factor between them is PG6A7W which is why Albert did not adhere to such a disease.



For the record, I think Albert Wesker coming back in any form is a horrible idea.

I’m just saying its not impossible.

 

[TheBatMan]

That's how he he has become 'immortal' essentially. He basically lives on and continues to influence key events even after his death through the work he did beforehand. But he was never intended to survive and will never come back. Capcom very briefly played around with the idea of bringing him back for 6 but quickly changed their minds because they conceded there was no realistic way to do it without just making things silly, that's why Jake was created.


And Wesker was most definitely killed because of Uroboros' weakness to extreme heat, PG67AW had nothing to do with that, it simply weakened his original state.


WR, yes Capcom do get to add things they didn't get to do originally, but that doesn't go for Wesker because the specific intent was to kill him off. We don't have to discard 50% of anything.

 

[Evil Resident]

The name Umbrella for a company seems so cheesy at this point, you know they'll end up living up to the name and doing exactly that, bad stuff. lol

Hi! Are you new here? I recomend reading the original post on this thread. Blue is already revealed to be evil.

It doesn’t work like that.You can’t keep picking and choose plot elements for you’re convenience.Uroboros is extremely volatile to heat period.

I don't pick and choose. Heat burns away the pustules so that the core can be damaged. If there is one area of the lore I try to understand the most, it's monsters and viruses.

Yeah i agree, RE7 is a great game that provided some new characters, elements and brought more positives to the franchise then negatives.So this should be enough to send them in the right direction, and create an even greater game with RE 8.

This post made my day.

And Wesker was most definitely killed because of Uroboros' weakness to extreme heat, PG67AW had nothing to do with that, it simply weakened his original state.

Wesker was killed because his powers were waning from PG67AW. Uroboros could have restored those powers (and then some), but he overdosed and needed more time to metabolise the pustules like Mkono before he could fully reap it's benefits. Chris and Sheva killed him before his powers were restored.

 

[TheBatMan]

PG67AW didn't make any difference because once he was in the lava it was game over regardless. Even Wesker himself knew it which is why he tried to drag Chris' helicopter down with him rather than use it to propel himself out of the lava. All PG67AW did was make it easier for them to get him into the lava in the first place. Once inside his body was being destroyed faster than it could ever heal itself.

 

[Evil Resident]

He had rockets going off in his hands earlier with no noticeable damage. Ustanak and even the T-103 survived similiar full body baths. He could have pulled himself out and recovered if he was at his peak.

 

[Weskers Report]

One thing we do know in the series is that viruses make you sterile.

thus its proper to think that immortality would be the way around such an obstacle.


I wanted to clear up some things about the Rival Company since I see a lot of confusion in the posts here on this forum. I also highly recommend listening to Episode 38 of the PU podcast as it talks about the various organizations in detail.


But basically the 3rd Organization is the Rival company.

In the Bio 4 guidebook Wesker has an employment timeline that shows in 1998 that he worked with '3rd Organization' so because of the timeline this can be nothing else but the Rival Company.

The Chief Villages notes in the files also constantly allude to a '3rd Party.'


H.C.F. was just a special force of the Rival Company.

Think of them along the lines of the U.B.C.S or U.S.S. for Umbrella.

'S' became Tricell and is therefore not relevant to the Rival Company.

The Rival Company CANNOT be Tricell because Wesker didn't contact Excella until 2003.


Wesker did not defect from Umbrella to Tricell he defected from the Third Organization to Tricell.

The Third Organization was never given a proper name despite being Umbrella's arch enemy / main rival. They are the Organization that Ada talks about in her own report.

They are also referred to as 'The AGENCY' by Annette Birkin during her conversation with Ada in Bio2.


some major ways the the Rival Company was involved in the series with:


*they hired and sent Ada into infilitrate the mansion and got John Clemens to fall in love with her and smuggle out a sample of the T-Virus in the process. she failed in doing so but in this process the Rival company found out about the G-Virus.


*Wesker ended up being hired about the Rival Organization and being partnered up with Ada.

they led the mission of recovering the G-Virus sample under the RO's orders.

Wesker on the side had a personal desire to rescue Birkin and hire him into the organazation as well.


*the Rival Company managed to acquire data on the Nemesi T-Type frmo Raccon City.


*they had a spy on Rockfort Island who was there for 3 + months which leaked the rumors to Wesker that Alexia might still be alive.


*Wesker then recovered the T-Vernoica virus from Steve's corpse for them.

they then created the Jabberwock S-3.

Wesker makes a pact with Javier and tries to get him to betray Umbrella and join the RO.


*Krauser joined the Rival Company. he got to utilize the same drone technology that the deployed RO Hunters had in CV.

going back for a moment, they created the supreme Hunter with data given to them from the mantion incident provided by Wesker.

they basically made Umbrella cancel the project because they now had an inferior product.

the Anubus was suppose to be their answer to this but it was a failed product.


*they placed a spy in the Caucasus Mountains looking for Umbrella's secret hangers where they are hiding all the B.O.W.'s.


--when Wesker steals the U.M.F-013 he keeps all the research data for himself--

this is the point of betrayal.


this is when the Organization starts fearing him and leads to Ada in Bio 4.


the Rival Company was one of several Organizations that helped fund the Anti-Umbrella Pursuit and Investigation Team to help provide weapons and equipment and all that equipment was bugged so that the RO could hear what was going on.


so you can see they had so much to do with the first half of the series.

bringing them back sounded like a good move at first but after Not A Hero I have changed my mind.

we still have 0 new details on them and still don't know their actual name.

 

[Evil Resident]

One thing we do know in the series is that viruses make you sterile.

Sometimes. G-Humans could reproduce.

The virus either makes hosts sterile, or extremely fertile, just as it makes them dumb or intelligent.


Examples of sterile hosts: zombies and Tyrants.

Examples of extra fertile hosts: many infected insects, G creatures, and Eliminators.

 

[TheBatMan]

The rockets going off in his hands clearly did damage him because they sent him flying and weakened his health. To take it any more literally than that you may as well add Jill as a superhuman because she can take damage off Nemesis rocket launcher and still survive.

The T-103 was able to survive because it sensed its life was in danger, disengaged its trench coat power limiter and climbed out whilst it could.

The Ustanak was horribly disfigured and clearly dying when it appeared for one last hurrah. Its skeleton and internal organs are almost visible. Its also just plot armor considering its metallic attachments haven't melted away and no virus is responsible for that.

Wesker was always a goner once in the lava because that was the intention. You can fight it all you want but the intent was to kill him, and in such an obvious way that these sorts of arguments about his survival would not occur. The clues are all there. He was infecting and adapting to a virus to which the only known weakness is extreme temperature - whilst swimming in molten lava. He was also trying to drag the helicopter down when he could have just propelled himself up onto it if he knew he could survive. Then he also took two rockets directly to his unshielded face just to ram the point home. And to top it off you have Kawata and Takeuchi saying he is definitely dead and there was no way he could have survived it.

What more do you need?

 

[Evil Resident]

They give you a launcher with night vision, tell you to turn off the lights, then let you use more rockets if you miss. He is even given a unique animation for when hit. Very deliberate, I'd say. Like the orbital laser with Aheri.


The metal on Ustanakis certainly an oversight. Damaged beyond repair or not, he survived, and Wesker could heal from a fragment of tissue, much more a skelaton with intact organs.

The T-103 point stands.


I think you misinterpreted my intention. I know and already agreed that the intent was for Wesker to fully and truly be dead. But the entire point of PG67AW being introduced was to give an otherwise immortal character a kryptonite . Like the Necrotoxin with Jack and Eveline.

I never said either that he could stay in the lava indefinately, but he could certainly get out and recover if he wasn't already weakened.

 

[TheBatMan]

You don't need night vision to hit him with a rocket in the ruins. It damages him quite easily and ends the fight pretty much immediately. The T-103 had its protective coat, without which it would not be able to survive. Besides, there's simply no consistency in these things as they just wanted Ustanak to come back for one last hurrah and clearly no logical thought was put into it. They just wanted it to happen. Likewise there's no real logic in T-103 being able to survive a bath in molten steel only for it then to be completely obliterated in its stronger form by a single rocket.


Even if he didn't have PG67AW, the lava would have killed him because Uroboros is destroyed by extreme heat. That's the key point. Weakened or not, he was pretty much in the only place where he could be killed. And I wouldn't put too much stock into the whole tissue fragment revival thing because it's just untested. The original intent for Wesker in RE5 was for him to have a false eye because Jill was originally to have stabbed him three years earlier in LIN. That injury was not regenerated and was supposed to be his original weak point before PG67AW was invented instead for the final product.

 

[Evil Resident]

I'm refering to the fight on the last level before leaving the tanker, where the intent is very clearly to use a rocket to stun him. By the time the Tyrant is out the coat is gone, and it's still on fire afterwards. The sheer force of the rocket exploding blew it to pieces.

Ignore it and rationalize it away all you want, but it's impossible to deny that Ustanak took a lava bath and lived. Whether or not it's realistic or what the motivation for making it so powerful is, it still happened.


Uroboros pustules are sensitive to heat. They are consumed by flame, exposing the core. That is clearly displayed, and the internal reasoning for it is clear. There is no reason to believe Uroboros humans would be weak to heat, and no internal reasoning to explain it, making such a rule completely arbitrary.


Birkin himself seemed sure of the fragment part, and Wesker being able to survive a Tyrant attack was something he needed to be sure with. It was tested - on mice. In the UC novel, Wesker's brains are squished. The fact Jack came back from legs just goes to show such a thing is possible.

The false eye thing may have been dropped for the very fact that it would break continuity., and it wouldn't be worth the trouble just to give Wesker a cool scar.

 

[TheBatMan]

Again, it matters not where the fight takes place. The rockets clearly hurt him when he is at full strength.

I can quite happily ignore it because as I said there's no consistency to it. If something can survive a bath in molten steel, then they can survive a rocket. The force of the former is a hell of a lot more than the force of the latter. And the Ustanak is even worse. It's all just done for spectacle with all logic put to one side for the sake of showmanship. Without consistency making such comparisons to Wesker as evidence to him being able to survive is futile.

There's every reason to suggest an Uroboros human would be weak to heat because the very virus that makes them so strong is weak to heat, pustules or not. There's no reason to think he would survive other than 'superhuman' which we already know is not enough for someone to survive in such circumstances. The Rev2 book cites Wesker achieved immortality, and yet he still died.

The UC novel doesn't matter in that regard because the game shows him stabbed in the abdomen which had healed over by the time he got outside. His head was quite intact throughout. The burns on his face in CVX also didn't instantly heal, which is another indicator that the lava would have done its work faster than he could have healed himself.

 

[Evil Resident]

Of course they hurt him. It's a rocket! But he shakes it off immediately afterwards.


Regardless of believability that's what happened in RE2 and RE6.

If you want to discuss the logic of things surviving molten liquid but not rockets, then please explain for me why Chris and Sheva can breathe in a voIcano, how Leon could lift both G-Curtis and Angela with one arm, or why Simmons needed to consume zombies to regain biomass as a fly, yet could conjure it from thin air to turn into a t-rex. All of these things happened.


The Prototyrant survived disposal too, and Nemesis was engulfed in plenty of explosions, and was submerged in acid himself. Why is it such a stretch with Wesker? Immortality is very close to literal in this series.


His brain was damaged by being tossed after the stab. Which probably ruptured every organ it touched, by the way.

Wesker also doesn't zip around as quickly in CV.

 

[Captain Redfield]

As I said numerous times, Rockets went through Wesker's head. Chris' Rocket pierced Wesker right in the middle of the face.

He was decapitated, the subsequent explosion obliterated what was left of him and even the lava destroyed every single tissue left. Yup, he was overkilled people.

 

[Weskers Report]

Sorry can’t read all this at the moment but @Evil Resident what’s your primary reasoning of why a Uroboros human would be resisitant to heat?


The bottom line please.

 

[TheBatMan]

Those are obviously just for gameplay purposes and hollywood spectacle, hence the lack of consistency when it comes to making these sorts of comparisons. Trying to compare them biologically in regard to how the viruses work is folly because all of that side is instantly discarded for the sake of creating a set piece. That's why you can choose to drive yourself mad analyzing these things to the minute detail when trying to justify a personal theory or you can just take the easy option and accept the original intent and what actually transpired. Simmons is a key example of that logic being cast aside in stupendously silly fashion.

Wesker zips around just as fast in the lab when he first meets Chris.

 

[Evil Resident]

@Captain Redfield I'm not arguing for his survival. I'm arguing that PG67AW is was what let him be killed.


@Weskers Report ,

Uroboros pustules are sensitive to heat. They are consumed by flame, exposing the core. That is clearly displayed, and the internal reasoning for it is clear. There is no reason to believe Uroboros humans would be weak to heat, and no internal reasoning to explain it, making such a rule completely arbitrary.

@Batman, this isn't really going anywhere, so let's just agree to disagree regarding our personal interpretations of an event so infinitely open to debate.

 

[Evil Resident]

Although I will say this:

That's why you can choose to drive yourself mad analyzing these things to the minute detail when trying to justify a personal theory or you can just take the easy option and accept the original intent and what actually transpired.

Examining the behavior and nature of monsters in RE is the most compelling aspect for me, far from driving me mad. It is consistent enough, as long as you can learn when to not nitpick or when to just roll with the absurdity.

I could throw the "minute detail scrounging to justify personal theory" accusation in your direction too, if I was so inclined. From my perspective, the intent and what actually happened is all very clear and simple.