General Blue Umbrella

[TheBatMan]

That's fair enough but for me I don't really worry too much about such things as the series has consistently demonstrated right from the very start that real world science and Resident Evil are most definitely not friends. And the absurdity as you put it is just getting largely worse as time has gone on. Instead of 'rolling with it', I find it spoils it as at least the earlier games in the series were more grounded on real science but with a science fiction 'what-if' twist applied. These days it's basically just sorcery.

And if the intent and what actually happened is that clear and simple, I really don't get why you are consistently trying to convince people how Wesker could have potentially survived RE5 when the intent and what happened was the exact opposite.

 

[Evil Resident]

Beyond the basic premise (virus rewrites genes), you can't compare RE to real life, of course. But it is typically internally consistent.


I was refering to my own enjoyment in regards to "rolling with it", not imposing it onto you. As long as the end result has enough that is satisfying for me, I can accept the fact that RE science is fantastical in nature. A good deal of my perspective there is due to the fact I'm a relatively new fan (well, 8 years, but still), and I don't have to adjust to the drop in realism. RE7 was ideal for me, as while it delt with things borderline magic in nature, the end result and presentation made it well worth it. For me personally.


As I said before, this had nothing to do with a potential Wesker return, but on my observations on what the virus is capable of. I never seriously entertained the idea of his return until UCorps. If he did come back, it would be retroactive, and I never said at any point he wasn't supposed to die in RE5.


I'd say the absurdity peaked a while ago.

 

[Weskers Report]

Honestly, I don’t need a sermon.


All I was saying is despite RE 5 development team saying Albert is dead the REV2 guidebook said he did bond with Uroboros and therefore achieved immortality.


im·mor·tal

i(m)ˈmôrdl/Submit

adjective

1.

living forever; never dying or decaying.


Thus negating the chances of dying and nullifying the full effect of fire in the process.


Based off this info:


could Wesker be a sludge?

Yes.


could he still have retained his thoughts?

Yes.


could Alex’s researchers have obtained his tissue samples back in 09’ when they were sent to Africa to get Urobos?

Yes.


could Alex have therefore copied his thoughts to a computer then copied them into a new body?

Yes.


I’m not talking about how dumb or absurd this all is, we’re in Paul Anderson territory now, I’m just saying it’s possible.


And Evil Resident I laugh now at how you call Wesker returning a retroactive shoe-horned in plot point element when you used to proudly tout how Capcom planned this all from the get go.

 

[N7Valentine]

Guys, all I can say is this: If Capcom really wants to bring Wesker back, regardless of how ridiculous it is, they'll do it!


I've been playing the series for more than a decade and I can clearly tell that they are prone to over-the-top stuff in their writing, which can be seen as something positive or negative, but that depends on you!


Honestly, I wouldn't be really surprised if he indeed returns to RE

 

[Evil Resident]

And Evil Resident I laugh now at how you call Wesker returning a retroactive shoe-horned in plot point element when you used to proudly tout how Capcom planned this all from the get go.

I never once made such a claim. I was always aware of the developers' intent to kill him. If you can quote me saying it, I'll gladly concede.

All I ever claimed was if it was possible going forward, even likely based on recent hints. It wouldn't be shoe horned, just retroactive. The only change in my stance is I have stronger doubts thanks to the 2007 date, but I'm mostly just tired of the shouting matches.


I wasn't giving a sermon - I was giving the bottom line statement you asked for. Everthing else was towards Batman, and still not a sermon, but a statement of opinion.


The difference between Anderson RE and CAPCOM RE isn't absurdity - they are equal there. It's that Anderson lacks subtlety, depth, or any kind of meaningful storytelling while BIOHAZARD has a (usually) satisfying rhyme and reason to the madness, along with substantial lore.

 

[TheBatMan]

A Japanese journalist studied pictures from a certain incident involving the BSAA and noticed their operatives were using new firearms. This led to them contacting Umbrella PMC and interviewing members of the 'Umbrella Anti Bio-weapons Development Bureau' based in the United States. This interview is what led to the existence of the Albert series anti-B.O.W. firearms being released to the world.


The AW01 archives we have translated seem to be written from the POV of this Japanese journalist. There will be the equivalent for the AW02 soon on the Tokyo Marui website. These 'Umbrella Corporation Special Reports' are also contained within this magazine:



Unfortunately I cannot seem to locate it anywhere. You get a free copy if you buy Thor's Hammer airsoft gun for about £1500.

 

[Evil Resident]

I believe BU has only recently gotten the public's attention, and has just started performing public operations in biohazard zones. At least as late as after RE6, where BU was still largely overlooked.

 

[Weskers Report]

There’s nothing that suggests they didn’t go public worldwide in 2007.

 

[Evil Resident]

I said they were generally overlooked and ignored, and didn't become a prominant player until just recently. Seems a given, considering they only show up recently and that UCorps talks about an upcoming resurrection in 2014. The majority of the members present in RE7 were new recruits for this very reason.

 

[TheBatMan]

I'm still convinced Chris was with them in 2014 when they first chased Eveline at The Connections' European headquarters. The guide book is very cryptic when it says Chris was with an 'investigation team' and there is no reason at all not to name the BSAA if it was indeed them. It is said Eveline was specifically moved because they feared she would be captured by rival organisations and the BSAA is not a rival, whereas Umbrella would be. Plus by 2017 the BSAA is completely convinced of Umbrella's good intentions and that would only come after a significant period of partnership working, much more than just a few missions together. The scant info we have on the 'Umbrella Arsenal System' also proves that BSAA operatives regularly assist Umbrella so Chris is not an oddity here. And he himself could have assisted Umbrella on a dozen missions and still not trust them given what he's experienced.

 

[News Bot]

> It is said Eveline was specifically moved because they feared she would be captured by rival organisations and the BSAA is not a rival


"Rival" is not used, it's "hostile organization."


> The scant info we have on the 'Umbrella Arsenal System' also proves that BSAA operatives regularly assist Umbrella so Chris is not an oddity here.


That's not implied:

"Certain data" for employees is contained in the "Umbrella Arsenal System" controlled by Blue Umbrella. Data can only be read by authorized individuals, but BSAA members invited to Blue Umbrella as advisers are authorized and access with the two dimensional code is possible from the Thor's Hammer weapon code label.

However, there appear to be segments viewable to the general public due to some hackers attempting to crack into the system.

So far the only BSAA member invited as an adviser to Blue Umbrella is Chris Redfield.

 

[Weskers Report]

‘Hostile’ and ‘rival’ are interchangeable.

Translated texts have said ‘a rival organization to Umbrella’ and ‘hostile organization to Umbrella’ both.


There’s nothing that suggests Chris hasn’t been on other missions with BU either and in fact he knows the three men in person that are being held captive suggesting otherwise.

more importanly it seems like other B.S.A.A. have been on missions with BU as Chris alludes to them trusting BU but he does not.


‘Investigation Team’ in the book is BU.

They are referenced as such in throughout the guidebook and in fact the only time ‘Umbrella’ is mentioned by name is with a question mark and that’s in the correlation chart.

 

[News Bot]

What other translation have you seen besides the official one? CAPCOM often spell out "rival" in katakana because it's the specific word they use for Umbrella's rival company. "Hostile" is a lot more vague.


There's nothing suggesting Chris HAS been on other missions with them. The idea comes solely from the guidebook, which have been wrong before.

 

[TheBatMan]

Hostile/rival it matters not. The BSAA have no reason to capture Eveline and nothing suggests they would even know about her existence in 2014. The same cannot be said of Umbrella for obvious reasons. And the very fact the UAS states BSAA members invited have authorization implies Chris is not alone, he is simply just the only one we know of so far.

 

[News Bot]

It matters if you brought up "rival" as evidence that the organization(s) referred to are business competitors, while "hostile" has no such connotation. Could just as likely be some national special forces like in Vendetta, doesn't have to be the BSAA. At the moment I assume it is Umbrella though, just without Chris. There is no plural in the original Japanese so it could be referring to one or several organizations and none specifically.


Chris is the only adviser as far as we know, indeed, which can change anytime. So there's no need to be so adamant that he and several other BSAA members have been working with Blue Umbrella for years when this entire idea hinges merely on the guide and is not supported by the game itself. Like Wesker sending Ada a rescue helicopter rather than escaping on Sergei's in Archives II, or Rockfort being in Europe. The guide writers were not privy to the full scope of the story and this is reflected in the guide, and there have been very obvious story changes particularly to Not A Hero in the meantime.


EDIT: Speaking of national organizations, we know there are at least two interested in Eveline but their acronyms are redacted. For reference, the FBC is described as a national organization, so they may be referring to similar groups.

Rather than increase the cost of battle and POW oversight, on the contrary, it increases allies... it's no wonder national organizations such as the ■■■■ and ■■■ are jumping at this concept.

 

[TheBatMan]

No it doesn't matter at all because it could very well mean exactly that. It is also just as likely, even more so in actual fact, to be Umbrella. They are the ones chasing down The Connections after all.


I'm happy being adamant thanks because the UAS states BSAA member(s) have authorization, so we can safely say Chris is not the only one, especially as the Albert weapons are used by multiple BSAA members. The guidebook mentions Chris being with an investigation team twice and is only not supported by the game itself because that particular point is never elaborated on because it is not important. Not A Hero doesn't say anything about it being Chris' first mission with Umbrella. Everything in the guidebook is on the money perfectly fine.


Wesker sending Ada a rescue helicopter is also technically not incorrect because without his instruction she never would have found it. Rockfort being in Europe is just a simple oversight, quite different to producing completely new information. Depends how literally you want to take these things or just look at them in context.

 

[News Bot]

They're chasing down The Connections in Not A Hero, how does this imply that they're the only ones chasing them? The Mandate file does not refer to single or plural organizations, so it could be either (including the two unknown national organizations referenced in Research Report 1), and the guide writers could quite simply have interpreted it as one organization and like us, assumed it to be Umbrella as they're the only named organization in the main story. That's a "simple oversight."


Do you know when the Umbrella Arsenal System was created? If it's as recent as the Albert Series then it doesn't help your theory.


The point isn't just not elaborated on, it's never referenced once even slightly. The script gives a very strong impression of this being Chris' first time with Umbrella, and there is nothing in it to imply otherwise. It's purely down to your faith in the guide. You are trying to rationalize everything around it with nothing actually propping it up.


Nothing worth entertaining on the helicopter comment if you're just going to ignore what words mean.

 

[TheBatMan]

It doesn't imply they are the only ones chasing them. It just makes narrative sense for them to be the ones hunting down Eveline in 2014 if they are to pop up and do the same again in 2017. No other organisations are directly involved in the story and specifically stating Chris Redfield was leading a team after them in 2014 is not 'a simple oversight', it's brand new information. There's no reason to just invent something like that off the cuff. In actual fact there is no need to mention it at all if it did not link in with the backstory to the game - a significant chunk of which happens to be about who Chris is working for during the events that transpire. Like I've said before, my view is to take the content of these guides as gospel until something directly contradicts them. They contain so much information not found in the games I'm not about to start discrediting points I agree or don't necessarily agree with because the writers 'might' have made them up. There's just no way to know at the end of the day. People seem quite happy to accept Wesker achieved immortality through Uroboros thanks to a line inside the Rev2 Ultimania and that could just as easily be made up. We either accept it all, or we accept none of it, otherwise we are just picking and choosing and that's where it gets messy. It's just a personal rule I have to keep some kind of structure in place. I've no problem if Chris was with the BSAA chasing Eveline in 2014, I just find it strange why that would purposefully not be outright stated, hence I lean towards the alternative.


We don't know when it was formed but considering what little information we do have states invited BSAA members (not singular) have access to it actually significantly supports the theory.


Numerous story points in the guidebooks are not elaborated on or referenced at all in the games. That is nothing new and the main reason why we collect them in the first place. The script doesn't confirm anything and doesn't imply anything, it simply says it will take some getting used to him working for Umbrella, which is not surprising given his history. He could have worked several missions a year for them for 3 years and still not be happy about it. That's just normal, but he does it anyway because he is ordered to. If the script outright stated it was his first mission, then we wouldn't need to have this conversation, but it doesn't. One thing it does state which is very significant is that the BSAA is convinced of Umbrella's honorable intentions. For me that would take significantly more than just the handing out of some Anti-BOW firearms.

 

[News Bot]

It doesn't make any narrative sense for Chris to work for Umbrella longer than S.T.A.R.S., remain completely distrustful in spite of his employers and supposed activities with them, and still need Veronica to tell him "we actually cool dawg" before every mission three years after supposedly joining. Somehow Veronica is quite calm about having to babysit and repeat PR to a manchild who thinks he still needs to "get used to it" after three years. Your expedition here is to try to rationalize and downplay it with speculation to fill the holes.

Two organizations besides Umbrella are specifically brought up as being interested in Eveline. They could very well just be customers, but it wouldn't be the first time a customer has turned against the shop (US Government and Umbrella) and Eveline is perhaps the most significant B.O.W. in the series politically. Umbrella with Chris at the helm was intent on destroying her, not capturing her, whether in 2014 or 2017, so the same thing about the BSAA not capturing her applies to Umbrella as well if you are adamant that Chris has been with them since 2014.

The guides contain many things that seem off-the-cuff because they are the guide writer's own interpretation, like the previously mentioned as well as speculating about how Irving received an enhanced dominant Plaga then never mentioning it again in Archives II, etc. This detail wasn't explicitly contradicted, so do you take it as gospel too?

We don't know when it was formed

Correct. For your theory to work it would need to have been formed in 2014 or before. Not impossible, but you play very fast and loose with your meaning of "gospel" when one of the core points in your theory is something you admittedly don't know.
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[TheBatMan]

He hasn't worked for Umbrella longer than STARS. STARS was his full time employment for two years. He clearly doesn't go out with Umbrella on every single of their missions. He may have only worked for them several times across several years. He is still very much a BSAA member and so of course he is going to be mistrustful of Umbrella.

Two unnamed organisations are mentioned to have an interest in the Mold, that is literally it. They are not important to the story that is being told in 7.

The guides contain no such thing.There has never been a major piece of complete contradictory information.

The theory of BSAA members other than just Chris having access to UAS doesn't matter at all about the date. It's already practically confirmed with what we know already. It's practically spelled out for us hence 'gospel'.

You just need to stop being so dismissive of ideas just because they punch holes in your own theories.