RE:4 RE:4 Officially Announced
- Thread starter Yama
- Start date
This guy said he loves the original RE4, but then I think I heard him saying he hates it. Or at least some of the parts after the initial village section, he isn't a fan of.
Some of his other points are fair, I will say. RE4 did move the franchise in a bizarre direction.
Some of his other points are fair, I will say. RE4 did move the franchise in a bizarre direction.
Initial thoughts!
Trailer looked great and its presentation was not what I was expecting.
Even darker in tone than I expected, hopefully not to a fault.
When Capcom revealed its numbering in its rather basic and cheap looking typeface, I felt like was a little tongue-in-cheek made to be brazen and straight to the point on purpose considering the previous leaks for many months. The cat has been out of the bag, and they were just letting you know at this point. I would've preferred a more elegant reveal to one of the most influential pieces of entertainment of all-time as it was unceremonious and jarring in comparison to the RE2 remake reveal many years ago - a game with an arguably less (but still) popular original as its source material. I suppose current times could have affected the way we're given these reveals with the absence of a stage presence and suppression of humanity.
With that said, I liked what I saw. I believe we are now witnessing the physical manifestation through the subconcious thoughts of what MANY Resident Evil fans worldwide (including myself) have wanted for a long time. The desire for the series to return to its roots is playing out before us. Capcom has finally become privy to our wishes as their egos start to separate from artistic design on what truly makes RE, RE as a grounded survival horror series.
My fandom started and ended with RE4 original, going back to the originals immediately to see what they were about as a new fan, only to stop because of Resident Evil 5 until then unexpectedly returning to the series in good spirits with RE7. It would suffice to say that while incredible on its own, the creative direction of RE4 original opened a can of worms for a company that was losing its love for game development, entirely. That was the true culpriut of what I feel is objectively the downfall of Resident Evil, instead of the reason being RE4 original tonally-shifting the series at the time - which was largely a scapegoat, while still being a solid game installment on its own.
What followed RE4 was aimless, tasteless and soulless, and I don't believe it was at the fault of RE4 original that this happened, but moreso those who took on the mantle of creating more RE games for the mainline and side entries between the years of 2009 and 2016 that misintrepeted the series entirely by solely focusing on "what worked" in RE4 and not "why it worked."
I bring all this up, because I see the reveal of RE4R as a possible turning point for the series in a way which I only dreamed of as a decades-long fan.
Not everyone might believe this as fact, but I truly feel it's been widely supported in the minds of many RE fans, albiet quietly, that the series needs a serious retcon between 4 and 7, in the absolute very least, in order to become "whole again." I believe that this very well may be coming - finally - basing off of what I also feel Capcom should've been doing with the series all along in a way that makes the most sense to the originals' overarching narrative, creative vision and survival horror game design. We know they took liberties with Resident Evil in the most recent remakes (mostly in gameplay), but the story has remained largely the same and faithful from characters to plot points, sometimes to much improvement from what I've seen. My personal hope is that they take what worked in the original RE4, ground it, and follow it up with a NEW replacement middle chapter to the mainline series that doesn't involve too hastily killing off the beyond inconic main antagonists, especially off-screen or in volcanoes. This possible encroaching 'great recton' is more exciting to me than the remaking of RE4 itself, and I believe it is imperative for making the series feel as it should've post-Mikami and crew.
Last thing I'd like to add is that I DO feel like RE4 is being remade "too early," not because I don't want an update, but because Code Veronica clearly should've came next and deserves it even more.
With that out of the way, RE4 can make its own improvements detached from removing itself from its current non-remake sequels because, as we all know to varying degrees, it did have its own host of issues as an RE game despite still being more survival horror and better designed as such than 5 and 6. Here's a few I can think of that would be enchancements to the experience which would add to the cohesive narrative and game design of the prequels.
- My most important improvement that isn't story-related is level and game design. Well thought out and intimate level design makes the difference between a horror game and a SURVIVAL game. This also includes proper item placement. Without non-linear game design in RE, you're just playing a shooting gallery with only one or two directions to go in while buying guns and upgrades from a disembodied merchant inbetween "chapters" from a faceless screen. While Village isn't my favorite, it did the balance between gunplay action and survival extremely well and RE4 could only improve with the same approach in comparison to RE4 original. The way items were found and taken from the eniviroment and enemies in Village should be implemented the same way in RE4 remake - a huge improvement from the arcade-like gathering of glowing pylons and overabundance in RE4 original.
- Involve Wesker and Umbrella more and set the stage for a brand new direction. I'm one of the few fans that didn't have a problem with RE4's original story as long as I was viewing it as a side-story or a means to an end of a greater story. If you look at some of the stories in the earlier titles, they were more of a "slice of life" within the RE Universe and could stand on their own with enough relation to be relevant from one to the next, Code Veronica being the most plot heavy in regards to the bigger picture. I think RE4 remake should have more "bigger picture" plot elements. This should be in addition to what I felt was a great story for a rescue mission with some familiar old characters plotting in the background, hinting at something greater at play. The RE story just needs to build on what was clearly building up to something had the original RE4's plot not been entirely ignored by 5, Las Plagas aside. In the current timeline, we got a dead, overly dramatic version of our series' anatagonist and organization that was only killed off-screen to be replaced by a random new organization and too quick to happen world domination plot with little build up or subtlely needed to fit the grounded tone and story pacing of the originals. RE5 Capcom was too eager to tie up series-long plot points that still needed time in the oven before concluding the Umbrella saga. I felt like we were just only starting to understand what Wesker truly wanted for Umbrella in CV and RE4 original.
- Jump the shark moments too insane to be believable by even RE standards: i.e. Salazar statue, fire dragon statues in a castle englufed in lava, jumping from crazy high heights unscathed, mine cart ride.
- Leon should feel more physically vulnerable - a middle-ground between hiself in RE2 and RE3 remake's impervious-to-everything Jill.
- Melee system reworked to be more reactionary than offensive. This is incredibly important to gameplay for me, personally, as this is the aspect of RE4 original that made it too combat-heavy and unbelievable. Carlos' combat I believe was a deliberate "test" for RE4 remake combat - they should utilize this system and build on it so you're not just QTE-ing crowds of enemies to death. RE7's Not A Hero is also a good example to use.
- Don't remove iconic lines and villains. Rework them a bit to fit the darker tone if possible. 'Camp' should be more integrated into Leon's character as he's a more confident and lax as an agent, six years later. The versions of Leon that we've gotten post-RE4 in mainline sequels and movies have been a complete misunderstanding of his cool demeanor and too serious due to being created by a version of Capcom that didn't understand the character at the time and why we liked him. Leon should be able to joke around while still being concerned with his whereabouts and situations, which is just another reason to retcon all of the character assassination going on between those 2009 - 2016 years. Capcom also should quit with "wokeness" that they displayed in the RE4 VR release while they're ahead and reintgrate the perfectly healthy and normal flirtacious heterosexual dynamics between Leon, Ashley and Luis. This was a relatable and iconic part of their characters and pathetic to remove because of today's landscape. I'm concerned these characters will be nuetered at this point.
- I heard a rumor about Krauser not being in the remake: I'm okay with this despite thinking how awesome he is. Unless they introduce him as a new threat to Leon with no prior inbetween games explanation, he doesn't need to be there. I'd prefer a backstory rework with him.
Trailer looked great and its presentation was not what I was expecting.
Even darker in tone than I expected, hopefully not to a fault.
When Capcom revealed its numbering in its rather basic and cheap looking typeface, I felt like was a little tongue-in-cheek made to be brazen and straight to the point on purpose considering the previous leaks for many months. The cat has been out of the bag, and they were just letting you know at this point. I would've preferred a more elegant reveal to one of the most influential pieces of entertainment of all-time as it was unceremonious and jarring in comparison to the RE2 remake reveal many years ago - a game with an arguably less (but still) popular original as its source material. I suppose current times could have affected the way we're given these reveals with the absence of a stage presence and suppression of humanity.
With that said, I liked what I saw. I believe we are now witnessing the physical manifestation through the subconcious thoughts of what MANY Resident Evil fans worldwide (including myself) have wanted for a long time. The desire for the series to return to its roots is playing out before us. Capcom has finally become privy to our wishes as their egos start to separate from artistic design on what truly makes RE, RE as a grounded survival horror series.
My fandom started and ended with RE4 original, going back to the originals immediately to see what they were about as a new fan, only to stop because of Resident Evil 5 until then unexpectedly returning to the series in good spirits with RE7. It would suffice to say that while incredible on its own, the creative direction of RE4 original opened a can of worms for a company that was losing its love for game development, entirely. That was the true culpriut of what I feel is objectively the downfall of Resident Evil, instead of the reason being RE4 original tonally-shifting the series at the time - which was largely a scapegoat, while still being a solid game installment on its own.
What followed RE4 was aimless, tasteless and soulless, and I don't believe it was at the fault of RE4 original that this happened, but moreso those who took on the mantle of creating more RE games for the mainline and side entries between the years of 2009 and 2016 that misintrepeted the series entirely by solely focusing on "what worked" in RE4 and not "why it worked."
I bring all this up, because I see the reveal of RE4R as a possible turning point for the series in a way which I only dreamed of as a decades-long fan.
Not everyone might believe this as fact, but I truly feel it's been widely supported in the minds of many RE fans, albiet quietly, that the series needs a serious retcon between 4 and 7, in the absolute very least, in order to become "whole again." I believe that this very well may be coming - finally - basing off of what I also feel Capcom should've been doing with the series all along in a way that makes the most sense to the originals' overarching narrative, creative vision and survival horror game design. We know they took liberties with Resident Evil in the most recent remakes (mostly in gameplay), but the story has remained largely the same and faithful from characters to plot points, sometimes to much improvement from what I've seen. My personal hope is that they take what worked in the original RE4, ground it, and follow it up with a NEW replacement middle chapter to the mainline series that doesn't involve too hastily killing off the beyond inconic main antagonists, especially off-screen or in volcanoes. This possible encroaching 'great recton' is more exciting to me than the remaking of RE4 itself, and I believe it is imperative for making the series feel as it should've post-Mikami and crew.
Last thing I'd like to add is that I DO feel like RE4 is being remade "too early," not because I don't want an update, but because Code Veronica clearly should've came next and deserves it even more.
With that out of the way, RE4 can make its own improvements detached from removing itself from its current non-remake sequels because, as we all know to varying degrees, it did have its own host of issues as an RE game despite still being more survival horror and better designed as such than 5 and 6. Here's a few I can think of that would be enchancements to the experience which would add to the cohesive narrative and game design of the prequels.
- My most important improvement that isn't story-related is level and game design. Well thought out and intimate level design makes the difference between a horror game and a SURVIVAL game. This also includes proper item placement. Without non-linear game design in RE, you're just playing a shooting gallery with only one or two directions to go in while buying guns and upgrades from a disembodied merchant inbetween "chapters" from a faceless screen. While Village isn't my favorite, it did the balance between gunplay action and survival extremely well and RE4 could only improve with the same approach in comparison to RE4 original. The way items were found and taken from the eniviroment and enemies in Village should be implemented the same way in RE4 remake - a huge improvement from the arcade-like gathering of glowing pylons and overabundance in RE4 original.
- Involve Wesker and Umbrella more and set the stage for a brand new direction. I'm one of the few fans that didn't have a problem with RE4's original story as long as I was viewing it as a side-story or a means to an end of a greater story. If you look at some of the stories in the earlier titles, they were more of a "slice of life" within the RE Universe and could stand on their own with enough relation to be relevant from one to the next, Code Veronica being the most plot heavy in regards to the bigger picture. I think RE4 remake should have more "bigger picture" plot elements. This should be in addition to what I felt was a great story for a rescue mission with some familiar old characters plotting in the background, hinting at something greater at play. The RE story just needs to build on what was clearly building up to something had the original RE4's plot not been entirely ignored by 5, Las Plagas aside. In the current timeline, we got a dead, overly dramatic version of our series' anatagonist and organization that was only killed off-screen to be replaced by a random new organization and too quick to happen world domination plot with little build up or subtlely needed to fit the grounded tone and story pacing of the originals. RE5 Capcom was too eager to tie up series-long plot points that still needed time in the oven before concluding the Umbrella saga. I felt like we were just only starting to understand what Wesker truly wanted for Umbrella in CV and RE4 original.
- Jump the shark moments too insane to be believable by even RE standards: i.e. Salazar statue, fire dragon statues in a castle englufed in lava, jumping from crazy high heights unscathed, mine cart ride.
- Leon should feel more physically vulnerable - a middle-ground between hiself in RE2 and RE3 remake's impervious-to-everything Jill.
- Melee system reworked to be more reactionary than offensive. This is incredibly important to gameplay for me, personally, as this is the aspect of RE4 original that made it too combat-heavy and unbelievable. Carlos' combat I believe was a deliberate "test" for RE4 remake combat - they should utilize this system and build on it so you're not just QTE-ing crowds of enemies to death. RE7's Not A Hero is also a good example to use.
- Don't remove iconic lines and villains. Rework them a bit to fit the darker tone if possible. 'Camp' should be more integrated into Leon's character as he's a more confident and lax as an agent, six years later. The versions of Leon that we've gotten post-RE4 in mainline sequels and movies have been a complete misunderstanding of his cool demeanor and too serious due to being created by a version of Capcom that didn't understand the character at the time and why we liked him. Leon should be able to joke around while still being concerned with his whereabouts and situations, which is just another reason to retcon all of the character assassination going on between those 2009 - 2016 years. Capcom also should quit with "wokeness" that they displayed in the RE4 VR release while they're ahead and reintgrate the perfectly healthy and normal flirtacious heterosexual dynamics between Leon, Ashley and Luis. This was a relatable and iconic part of their characters and pathetic to remove because of today's landscape. I'm concerned these characters will be nuetered at this point.
- I heard a rumor about Krauser not being in the remake: I'm okay with this despite thinking how awesome he is. Unless they introduce him as a new threat to Leon with no prior inbetween games explanation, he doesn't need to be there. I'd prefer a backstory rework with him.
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At the end of the day, we probably shouldn't keep comparing the old classics to the new ones, as Capcom is bound to keep changing things and upsetting the community. That way, you can just enjoy it for what it offers. But I would like to have the franchise going forward, and Jill needs to be reinstated.
They cannot constantly mess up the plot and not clear up aspects of it. This is why I can see fans losing interest. For some people, the ship sailed long ago.
RE4 being remade is like another honeymoon phase. Maybe it will be great. But once you yearn for a new story, you will move on quickly.
They cannot constantly mess up the plot and not clear up aspects of it. This is why I can see fans losing interest. For some people, the ship sailed long ago.
RE4 being remade is like another honeymoon phase. Maybe it will be great. But once you yearn for a new story, you will move on quickly.
It probably is a remake that is intended as a sequel to the remake of RE2, because I don't believe this is supposed to remotely be in the same continuity as the original games. But you're right. It is relatively pointless, and I would rather have new storylines coming from Capcom. But since RE4 is popular, that's the problem. Capcom knows it's so easy to get people invested.
The original games weren't part of any continuity either. Even the first game fundamentally contradicts Zero and the second one. This is not some kind of mistake, but part of the design that Capcom is doing. Originals, reimaginings from the Chronicles series and new remakes are just interpretations that coexist with each other.
They will probably reference the RE2 remake, though.
Not sure how they will explain how Leon knows about Ada's involvement with Wesker. In the original game, they didn't completely reveal how he was aware of this. Unless I just missed it.
Not sure how they will explain how Leon knows about Ada's involvement with Wesker. In the original game, they didn't completely reveal how he was aware of this. Unless I just missed it.
I mean, if this is a question, I can answer, haha!
"Through the intelligence division, intel about a female spy resembling Ada still being alive had reached Leon's ears. She was also rumored to have joined an organization that could be referred to as the remnants of Umbrella. But he refused to believe it. He'd stubbornly refused to believe that the memory of Ada, who'd died in his arms, could be a lie his love whispered to him."
biohazard 4 Kaitai Shinsho
biohazard 4 Kaitai Shinsho (バイオハザード4 解体真書) ※ Revised Edition information also included.
www.projectumbrella.net
That's why Leon says in that scene that it's true that Ada works for Wesker. Meeting with her confirms this intelligence.
Yeah, although it's not necessary. Johnny Takeyama, who is a character in the canonical timeline, has already acknowledged that Kendo had a daughter and a wife in Raccoon City.
I always wanted a more horror focused RE4, but it’s bizarre that 2 years ago they turned RE3 that was a survivor horror game into a full blown action title with little depth to exploration. What was M-Two thinking and why were they chosen for such an iconic game? They need to keep main title projects in house and stop being greedy.
Apparently M-Two was working on REmake 4 before being taken off, so Capcom almost messed up yet again. We don’t need yearly RE releases. The only reason it was like that in the 90’s was because games were much easier to make with smaller teams. Now they are pushing up to 800 people working on these newer games. Whether that’s making them rush games out the door or not remains to be proven but I have a hunch that’s part of the reason.
Since REmake 4 has been in the oven for about 5 years supposedly, I am not too worried and I feel this will be my favorite out of the recent remakes. We’ll see come March next year!
Apparently M-Two was working on REmake 4 before being taken off, so Capcom almost messed up yet again. We don’t need yearly RE releases. The only reason it was like that in the 90’s was because games were much easier to make with smaller teams. Now they are pushing up to 800 people working on these newer games. Whether that’s making them rush games out the door or not remains to be proven but I have a hunch that’s part of the reason.
Since REmake 4 has been in the oven for about 5 years supposedly, I am not too worried and I feel this will be my favorite out of the recent remakes. We’ll see come March next year!
First off, welcome back Jitsu!
I personally wouldn't have been against a series reboot at one point, but it would have had to start with the first game. The moment they picked up the second game to remake I saw it as a one off, much deserved. Then came 3, then 4 and now it was a missed opportunity to actually reboot and we're left a bit disjointed. I want liberties, I want differences... the originals aren't going anywhere, go wild. Now they're trying to fit in creative liberties but being held back trying to link them to later titles, unless they do those too. Wouldn't be entirely against it if they made it fit with 7 and 8, but that's a stretch.
Wholeheartedly agree, despite being excited for it. The emphasis on Wesker should be elevated in the main game, but it'll mean so much less without RE:1 or RE:CV for newer fans.
Would have to take the liberties I was speaking about above, but without having rebooted it that's a tough one. If they just made an alternate re-telling I wouldn't be against it but I know a lot of others would be, understandably.
I am willing to bet money that Wesker won't even be in the game, he may be mentioned by Ada or Krauser but that is about it. They didn't even bother putting Barry in REmake 3, so it's a high chance this will happen. Capcom is hellbent on keeping Wesker dead and buried, he hasn't been in a game since 2009! This will also feel disconnected from Operation Javier if they reimagine Krauser too much to where he is unrecognizable. There is also the retcon coming where the NE-a parasite in RE3 will be directly linked to the Plaga, which was not the case in the originals.
So the whole canon now is a giant amalgamation of grey canon that can be interpreted differently depending on what you like more. Don't like the remakes or RE Engine games? Then the timeline ended with RE5 or RE6 for you. Dislike the action games of RE4-6? Then the series ended with CVX or the Chronicles games for you. Even the Chronicles games themselves are there for fans who dislike the tank control games. I personally wanted a definitive canon scenario for REmake 2 but that didn't happen. There are multiple ways to approach this franchise for newer fans, whether that's a bad or good thing is debatable on its own.
So the whole canon now is a giant amalgamation of grey canon that can be interpreted differently depending on what you like more. Don't like the remakes or RE Engine games? Then the timeline ended with RE5 or RE6 for you. Dislike the action games of RE4-6? Then the series ended with CVX or the Chronicles games for you. Even the Chronicles games themselves are there for fans who dislike the tank control games. I personally wanted a definitive canon scenario for REmake 2 but that didn't happen. There are multiple ways to approach this franchise for newer fans, whether that's a bad or good thing is debatable on its own.
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Same here, definitely something I was actually looking forward to initially.
I hear you about Barry, but I'd like to think this team will push the envelope a bit further than M-Two. RE:4 also means so much to the franchise and gaming as a whole.
Here's my latest opinions videos, and the last guy is not me, but a YouTuber I happen to follow. 
But Wesker was in Umbrella Corps.
Chris used his guns in Biohazard 7 because he worked with his company, and now his company has become a sponsor of the BSAA.
This all comes from Biohazard 4, when Wesker became the leader of Umbrella's remnants. This is not nearly the same as Barry, who appears in one of the endings that can be overlooked.
Capcom has done this before, linking the Nemesis parasite to the G-Virus through Lisa. It didn't change the way the pathogen works in the game in any way, just added a layer to it.
Only those games whose plots are designed as unreliable stories.
The series as a whole is extremely consistent and even games like Biohazard 5 and Biohazard Village fit perfectly.
If you count the announcer for the versus mode and the Wesker head skin people can wear as a return sure, but I don't unless he is a C-Virus clone or something. The NE-a being linked to G added a layer I agree, but in the originals Umbrella had no idea what the Plaga even were. That's why Wesker sought after them to begin with since it was a new discovery. Unless they will change it to where they found a dead carcass of one somewhere in Europe (or even Africa) and that would give more backstory to how NE-a was artificially developed.
I just can't see how the series can seem extremely consistent when the recent remakes change around events, likeness' of characters, etc. REmake 2 story being constructed like RE1's was a bizarre decision and only made the events even more jumbled and confusing. With that said, I honestly don't mind story changes to REmake 4 if they make sense and connect better with what came before, which the recent remakes have been failing at.
More than anything, I mean the plot role of the company leader who watched 3A7. Through Jackson, we got a portrait of Wesker, including his status as a legend and how well he knows the Spanish village and the cult incident, as if he was there.
And only then I appeal to the negotiations, where Douglas's Wesker-like voice says that the rumors about his demise were slightly exaggerated.
This is a Wesker character, without a doubt. Technically, it could be Wesker himself, his clone or a copy of consciousness, whatever, but we understand that his figure was brought back to return to the old Umbrella thread as well.
I'm sure the company still doesn't know either. As Sakata said, Umbrella discovered the parasite in the wild, and it became the basis for the artificially created Nemesis.
This is the same lore, the company just found a reference to work with. And it could have found the parasite in Africa or wherever, because it's an ancient life form. It's not necessarily something we'll get a callback about in the new game, because it's part of the Biohazard RE:3 setting.
The whole reason for Saddler's success was due to the fact that the parasites hidden by the Salazar family were not fossils, but actually mummified, so they were able to secrete spores. No one knew about it and did not expect it at all. Therefore, the cult was able to resume the parasite population and genetically modify them eventually.
Meanwhile, Umbrella was creating everything from scratch, so their artificial parasites were killing the human hosts.
Remakes are basically just a new round of retellings. They take liberties because unreliability is part of the design of such retrospectives.
If we recall the events of Last Escape from The Umbrella Chronicles, the Pursuer doesn't even infect Jill there, although this scenario is related to Sergei Vladimir and the narrative of the game. And after that, Biohazard 5 acknowledges that Jill was actually infected in RC.
But if you take games like Biohazard 7 and Biohazard Village, I strongly doubt that you can blame them for the inconsistency, because they perfectly fit the time line. They may look different because of a different engine, "feel" different, whatever, but they are completely consistent in terms of writing. Because they are not designed as unreliable narratives, respectively.
Meanwhile, The Umbrella Chronicles planned a retelling of Biohazard 4, but it was cut.
I totally forgot about her. You know, though? I think they probably will not include her for pacing reasons.