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Revelations Revelations Games Are Spinoffs.

mert20004

Mert_BIO_6
I used to think they are mainline entries but according to this recently translated article, they are described as spinoffs:


The quote of ampo:

" This is the second game in this BIO spin-off series and the word "Revelations" has the meaning of "revealing truths never mentioned in the official history", as well as "rediscovering the series' charm" as an homage. "

Wanted to create this just in case.
 
I have never understood the idea that spin offs are somehow "lesser" than the main, often numbered entries in a story. Some spin offs have better stories than their parallel counterparts. Both REV titles have far superior plots, Antagonists, and Deuteragonists to bio4, for example. I was never under the impression that they were not spin offs, though as they were originally intended to be handheld exclusives before going over to consoles due to unexpected popularity while still maintaining an experimental position with the episodic release of the second game, they did get a pseudo-mainline feel. A spin off is just a detour from the primary story. It is not the same as, say, filler, though it can be if outsourced to a writing team that does not have the same passion for the story as the main one.
 
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mert20004

Mert_BIO_6
I have never understood the idea that spin offs are somehow "lesser" than the main, often numbered entries in a story. Some spin offs have better stories than their parallel counterparts. Both REV titles have far superior plots, Antagonists, and Deuteragonists to bio4, for example. A spin off is just a detour from the primary story. It is not the same as, say, filler, though it can be if outsourced to a writing team that does not have the same passion for the story as the main one.
Yeah ı wouldnt say they are " lesser " than mainline entries storywise either. Even the ones ı dont like have fascinating background lore for what they are.

As for rerev games, while ı dont care much for them ( including rerev2 these days. ) , ı still agree that they have better stories than re4. ( Which its story ı actually dont mind that much despite not being one of my favourites. ) Characters ı cant fully agree though, in some aspects yes but in other aspects ı also prefer re4 too.

Though ı wouldnt describe all spinoffs as " detour " . Umbrella chronicles for example has a very important story, especially umbrella's end parts where it explains the company's destruction. It even has a manga dedicated to it which chris references in the game. However re4 is mainline and yet its story feels like a detour due to focusing on plaga and los illuminados while having umbrella revival on the background.

And filler ı would say fits to remake, chronicles retellings and re engine recreations. They dont feel like they progress the storyline that much. Remake is more of the same with barely any improvement or change from og game, re2 2019 feels confused at what it wants to be and re3 2020 feels like an alternative take on og game. Chronicles retellings ı only like remake, re2 and recv ones however as much as ı like them, they dont have that much new stuff which progress the storyline a lot. Their main purpose feel more like trying to improve past games rather than making progress through the storyline.
 
Umbrella's exact means of destruction was never part of the focus of the main story. It was always treated as the background. It's still important, just not meant to be told in the same way. Not everything important in a story progresses it, sometimes all we get are elaborations but that still expands the story. So I see no difference in relevance between a spin off which is very much designed to be a detour and a main, typically numbered, entry. CAPCOM just has issues with its storytelling due to changing writers so many times.
 

Caffeine Addict

thesaunderschild
I want to see that sequel with Rebecca. It is a pity they seemingly chose to cancel it.

There is a timer for 8 more hours on this Capcom site, but for what coverage? ;)

 

mert20004

Mert_BIO_6
Umbrella's exact means of destruction was never part of the focus of the main story. It was always treated as the background. It's still important, just not meant to be told in the same way. Not everything important in a story progresses it, sometimes all we get are elaborations but that still expands the story. So I see no difference in relevance between a spin off which is very much designed to be a detour and a main, typically numbered, entry. CAPCOM just has issues with its storytelling due to changing writers so many times.
Honestly ı would have preferred if it was tbh. While umbrella's end chapters of umbrella chronicles feel important; at the same time, they are very anti-climactic and missing characters who should have appeared other than chris, jill and wesker.

The fact that they wanted to solve that problem re4 caused with an on rail shooter spinoff is one of the reasons why ı dont care much for umbrella and its supposed revival really.

And yeah capcom changing writers so many times also makes things more confusing. Iwao leaving the company caused the franchise to stay as a flawed masterpiece to me and sugimura and suga dying only made things worse. There's also localization problem of the franchise and capcom's new direction starting with re7 doesnt look that appealing to me either.
 
By that logic than CV is also a spin-off simply because it doesn’t have a number after it’s name. Stating that Rev games are spin-offs only hurts them by a marketing standpoint and undermines the qualities they brought to the series.

I didn’t care for Rev1 plot at all but it attempted to characterize the BSAA and expand on it from RE5. How is that a spin-off story exactly? Games like what were mentioned before with Chronicles and Gun Survivor series should be in the spin-off category not the Revelations games nor CV.

If those games are considered spin-offs than RE7 and RE8 are spin-offs to me.
 

mert20004

Mert_BIO_6
By that logic than CV is also a spin-off simply because it doesn’t have a number after it’s name. Stating that Rev games are spin-offs only hurts them by a marketing standpoint and undermines the qualities they brought to the series.

I didn’t care for Rev1 plot at all but it attempted to characterize the BSAA and expand on it from RE5. How is that a spin-off story exactly? Games like what were mentioned before with Chronicles and Gun Survivor series should be in the spin-off category not the Revelations games nor CV.

If those games are considered spin-offs than RE7 and RE8 are spin-offs to me.
Recv is definitely mainline. I know some who considers it a spinoff but ı dont agree. Kato and mikami even think it's the actual re2 and it actually was at some point. I dont remember the quite details not to mention ı find the whole rivalry between re3, recv and even re4 fans quite annoying about which one is " real " re3 but regardless it's definitely mainline.

Re0 ı can see but ıdk if it's described as a spinoff by any dev.

Yeah that seems to happen. They didnt sell a lot, at least not as much as re5 and re6 which are still capcom's best selling re games. One reason for that is them not being numbered. Rerev2's episodic nature also seems to be disliked, at least what ı've seen and remember on steam reviews. I'm sure that hurt the game as well.

I agree about re7 and revillage actually but they are also mainline. The former's director is koshi nakanishi, who directed rerev. Since rerev seems to receive a better reception than both reorc and re6 in 2012, they not only ported the game due to better reception along with wishes from fans but also made him the next director for the next numbered entry after re6.

As for revillage, ı've believe ı saw somewhere that it seems to be rerev3 originally but it became a numbered entry. ( Even though it hides its number in a similar fashion to re7. The last mainline non-recreation entry that didnt hide its number was re6. ) I think dusk golem also mentioned it. However ı dont like him that much and ı dont think he's really reliable either.
 
CODE:Veronica was developed with the intention of it having a number in line with its predecessors before this was changed at the last moment. The first REV was never meant to be a part of the main story but it is still important. In any case a main story entry is typically numbered when it is part of a series full of main entries that are numbered, that does not mean it always is. There are exceptions all the time in gaming, literature, film, etc. Rambo has numerous numbered entries but began with the differently titled First Blood, for example. Another example, Alien only numbers its third film but each is still considered important to the overall story. Spin offs are just as important as the main story so calling them what they are doesn't hurt them especially when they are mentioned in the main story. Many fans detest Gun Survivor but Sheena Island is mentioned in bio0, showing the game was considered of equal importance to it by the writing team.
 
CODE:Veronica was developed with the intention of it having a number in line with its predecessors before this was changed at the last moment.

It's a myth though. The developers have always planned to make a separate title that is not part of the numbered series.

Here is a quote from Shinji Mikami:

"We sincerely apologize to the people who anticipated Bio Hazard 2 for Saturn. We were developing Bio Hazard 2 for Saturn, but found out that it's difficult to achieve the same level of quality on the Saturn that the PlayStation version had. So we decided to change the platform (from Saturn) to Dreamcast, and develop a new game called Bio Hazard Code: Veronica for the system. We are working like mad to make the game better than the PlayStation version visually, on the scenario side, and the overall game itself. Thanks for your understanding."

This quote was published on October 21, 1998. Here is the source.

And here Mikami-san also explains the reason why the game doesn't have a number:

"This time, there's no '3' or '4' in the title. Veronica is a character's name. The reason we didn't use '3' or '4' is because we wanted to make an all-new BIO, including the visual aspects, etc. However, that doesn't mean this game will be a total gaiden. It's a secret, but... the story is a continuation of 'BIO2'... isn't it? (laughs)."

So the developers never had the intention to make the game numbered. It's a gaiden (spin-off) as well.

I believe it was called Biohazard Dreamcast before getting the Veronica title.

Kato and mikami even think it's the actual re2 and it actually was at some point.

Mikami-san also said in various interviews that Veronica for him is the true BIO3 and the true BIO4. He even mentioned once that this game as a whole is the only true BIO game in the series.

And it's just his opinion, which is irrelevant to the topic. What we are discussing here is simply a matter of definition. And you can even see above that Mikami-san himself said that Veronica is a gaiden because it is. Yes, not a total one, but still a gaiden.

If those games are considered spin-offs than RE7 and RE8 are spin-offs to me.

I personally think the story of Revelations 2 is more relevant than the story of Biohazard 6, but the thing is that big-budget titles get numbers. And if you are making a big-budget title for a mass audience, you want the maximum number of players to be comfortable with the story that the game tells. Therefore, no one needs to play Biohazard 4 to understand Wesker's character in Biohazard 5, since the new narrative does not rely on the previous one, since it changes the character's goal and explains this part.

In other words, Albert may be a million times an old character, but functionally he is no different from Alexia, Carla, Miranda and so on.

This, of course, does not mean that numbered games do not contribute to mythology and are not related to each other. They do all these things, just not in the foreground, otherwise it would make it harder for casual players to enter the series. And nerds like me who dig deep are a niche audience that won't recoup the costs.
 

mert20004

Mert_BIO_6
It's a myth though. The developers have always planned to make a separate title that is not part of the numbered series.

Here is a quote from Shinji Mikami:

"We sincerely apologize to the people who anticipated Bio Hazard 2 for Saturn. We were developing Bio Hazard 2 for Saturn, but found out that it's difficult to achieve the same level of quality on the Saturn that the PlayStation version had. So we decided to change the platform (from Saturn) to Dreamcast, and develop a new game called Bio Hazard Code: Veronica for the system. We are working like mad to make the game better than the PlayStation version visually, on the scenario side, and the overall game itself. Thanks for your understanding."

This quote was published on October 21, 1998. Here is the source.

And here Mikami-san also explains the reason why the game doesn't have a number:

"This time, there's no '3' or '4' in the title. Veronica is a character's name. The reason we didn't use '3' or '4' is because we wanted to make an all-new BIO, including the visual aspects, etc. However, that doesn't mean this game will be a total gaiden. It's a secret, but... the story is a continuation of 'BIO2'... isn't it? (laughs)."

So the developers never had the intention to make the game numbered. It's a gaiden (spin-off) as well.

I believe it was called Biohazard Dreamcast before getting the Veronica title.



Mikami-san also said in various interviews that Veronica for him is the true BIO3 and the true BIO4. He even mentioned once that this game as a whole is the only true BIO game in the series.

And it's just his opinion, which is irrelevant to the topic. What we are discussing here is simply a matter of definition. And you can even see above that Mikami-san himself said that Veronica is a gaiden because it is. Yes, not a total one, but still a gaiden.



I personally think the story of Revelations 2 is more relevant than the story of Biohazard 6, but the thing is that big-budget titles get numbers. And if you are making a big-budget title for a mass audience, you want the maximum number of players to be comfortable with the story that the game tells. Therefore, no one needs to play Biohazard 4 to understand Wesker's character in Biohazard 5, since the new narrative does not rely on the previous one, since it changes the character's goal and explains this part.

In other words, Albert may be a million times an old character, but functionally he is no different from Alexia, Carla, Miranda and so on.

This, of course, does not mean that numbered games do not contribute to mythology and are not related to each other. They do all these things, just not in the foreground, otherwise it would make it harder for casual players to enter the series. And nerds like me who dig deep are a niche audience that won't recoup the costs.
So recv was technically re2 then? Since they were developing re2 for a new platform similar to how re1 was developed for saturn. And they dont describe it as " gaiden " either since mikami says " that doesn't mean this game will be a total gaiden. " .

I dont think he said it was actual re3 or re4. From what ı remember during the times ı've spent on project umbrella discord server, he seems to consider it as true re2, likes it more than re3 and thinks it probably should have been called re4. Idk he said it's the only true re game in the series though, do you have a source for that?

I'm guessing the mainline titles are re1, re2, re3, recv, re0, re4, re5, re6, re7 and revillage. ( Though ı still agree with ripvanx that the last 2 feel more like horror focused spinoffs similar to rerev games rather than main numbered titles. With rerev games being considered spinoffs, it makes more sense now. )

And now that ı think about it, ı wouldnt include remake and re engine versions of re2 and re3 as part of mainline group either due to them being recreations despite them being based on older games. But ı can understand if anyone would disagree about this.
 
So recv was technically re2 then?

Veronica is a gaiden that was never planned to be part of a numbered series.

Capcom planned to port BIO2 to the SEGA Saturn console, but it didn't work, so they decided to focus on a new title for another SEGA console.

I dont think he said it was actual re3 or re4.

Mikami-san hardly meant that Veronica is an actual BIO2, BIO3 or BIO4, because that would be untrue. He just shared his opinion, as if some gamer named Joe said that Revelations 2 felt more BIO6 for him than BIO6 itself. It's just an opinion.

And they dont describe it as " gaiden " either since mikami says " that doesn't mean this game will be a total gaiden. ".

He literally says that the game will be a gaiden, just not total, since its story will be more relevant.
 

mert20004

Mert_BIO_6
Veronica is a gaiden that was never planned to be part of a numbered series.

Capcom planned to port BIO2 to the SEGA Saturn console, but it didn't work, so they decided to focus on a new title for another SEGA console.



Mikami-san hardly meant that Veronica is an actual BIO2, BIO3 or BIO4, because that would be untrue. He just shared his opinion, as if some gamer named Joe said that Revelations 2 felt more BIO6 for him than BIO6 itself. It's just an opinion.



He literally says that the game will be a gaiden, just not total, since its story will be more relevant.
You know ı think ı didnt read a small part properly, that being the " total " word. My apologies. Ok so recv is a spinoff then.

But what about re0? Should that game be considered a spinoff too? Especially since it's a prequel to re1 and remake. I dont see why re0 wouldnt be considered a spinoff either if rerev games are considered as ones. But if there's a dev quote about that game too, ı would like to read that 1st.
 

Caffeine Addict

thesaunderschild
I think a third game is long overdue. They had the right idea going. So I don't know what has happened.

These games are cool in that we can see characters of the past and learn what they've been up to between the numbered primary installments. It's a shame to not further them.
 
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