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RE:3 RE:3 Remake Thoughts

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thesaunderschild
Yep. We might have known. That means more work for Capcom. ?

Anyway... I suggest you get ready as the Future of Gaming event is on in just over an hour. ?
 

A. Wesker

Fortes Fortuna Adiuvat
That's what happens when you let Ex- Platinum devs work on Resident Evil, they are good at what they do and should stay in their territory. Because they have zero understanding of what RE should be.
 
I've been seeing some people saying this game is like re6; probably due to running sections and qtes. The vehicle section at the start uses qtes similar to the one in leon's 1st chapter in re6. Though in a way; it also reminds me of re7's jack boss fight since it's the exact same car ethan uses.

I still disagree though. The game reminds me more of re7's action dlcs, especially not a hero. Mainly cause the combat system compared to og game, feels dumbed down. Sure the dodging feels improved but that's really it. Jill's weapon loadout feels like they lazily combined claire's and leon's weapon loadouts from re2 2019 into one plus some stuff is cut like that insane gunpowder system. From pre-re4 mainline entries; re3 has the deepest combat system just like how re6 has the deepest combat system from action horror trilogy.

In re7's action dlcs; their combat systems also feel dumbed down compared to re5 and re6. Especially re6. Like going from re5 and chris' re6 campaign to not a hero; it's like chris forgot how to fight bows in re7 while relying on inferior tactics. He has a way better combat system, better weapons, attacks etc. to defeat bows in re6. Why does joe have better combat mechanics than chris does? And people think chris' design in re7 is the worst part about him even though it's the least bad thing about him.

That being said; ı dont think it's as butchered as re7's action dlcs but it's a shame the combat system for the game is very lazy. I mean even re2 2019 improved its combat system compared to og game despite the cut content; why cant re3 2020 do the same?

Oh and another reason why re3 2020 feels like re2 2019's " not a hero " is due to the fact that carlos can punch just like chris and he looks like re6 chris. I've seen people criticise this but the real question people dont ask is...

Why dont hunk and ada have their melee attacks from their sections in umbrella chronicles? Like ı wished we could break zombie necks in re2 2019's 4th survivor section for example.
 

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thesaunderschild
I think the RE2 remake sucks too, but not as much as RE3 - which is a colossal failure. RE2 is still not that great, though. I mean, why'd they remove the ivy plants and put these stupid looking plant men in the lab, attacking you in their place? Ha. Although Plant 42 still appears... dead against a window! You know how Capcom likes to "kill" things. ;)

Another thing: I hate the post sewers section with the tram. Mind in the original when you had the brilliant encounter with G, when the former William Birkin injured Ada, and he took her to a room to rest up before you explore the final areas of the game? In the remake, they just get on board, take it down, and that's more or less it. Where's the intensity? It just doesn't feel right. Just like the gator encounter. Meh. Meh. Meh. :p

Also, Leon in general looks stupid. Claire is fine, I guess. But Leon? Nah. I'll stick to the 1998 Leon. Even the version in The Darkside Chronicles was better.

RE2 is not that bad, but it's NOT that great either. Sad to say. I think the RE4 remake, while I hate to say it, is gonna be trash as well...

:(
 
I feel like re3 2020's " main game " is resistance rather than main story; similar to rerev's situation where the " main game " is raid mode rather than the main story.

In both games' cases; the effort seems to be put more into their extra modes ( Resistance / raid mode ) rather than their main story.

For example; the iconic 4 shot rocket launcher from re1 and re3 is available on resistance but not in main story for a weird reason.

And resistance is getting constant updates while the main story isnt.

Nemesis also reminds me of rachel in some ways; mainly cause both monsters drop loot when defeated and some drops feel crappy and gives the impression that you shouldnt defeat the monster at specific points once you know the drop.
 

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thesaunderschild
The first Revelations didn't feel like a RE game, until the end when Chris and Jill went to look for Wesker. It is still a pretty good game. But it was better than the RE3 remake.

Revelations 2 is a huge improvement, but I never see people talking about that in the same tone as say, RE4 or 5. That's a pity. These type of spin off games were way better than the lame stuff we got like Operation Raccoon City, Umbrella Corps, and even the not so great, but not too bland either, Chronicles games.
 

A. Wesker

Fortes Fortuna Adiuvat
I think Revelations was the first game to really feel like RE since RE3 (and I mean in a very general sense, I think 5 is more RE than 4 but that's a different issue) while it did bring something kinda new it was awesome to me, though I have a weakness for water monsters something about them is creepier than anything else.

If someone tells you they saw something weird on land that is always hard to believe, but if a sailor tells you he saw something weird in the water it can actually be true, you never know when it comes to the sea.

Aspects of the story of Rev 2 are a big deal and it deserved to be a numbered entry, Alex is the most important villain post RE5 just because of her last name alone
 
I dont like how they cut the chopper fight with nicholai in re3 2020.

Wished they improved it and make a boss fight with it.

I'll stick to og re3 and re6 since ı can take down choppers with rocket launcher / grenade launcher.

Meanwhile re3 2020 is obsessed with realism and suffering from the same disease re7 and re2 2019 do.
 
Why doesnt this game have electric rounds, a stun rod ( Similar to sherry's in re6. ) or a stun gun?

I mean you could shock monsters with jill's stun gun in remake if they grabbed you.

Grave digger could also be shocked to death in og game if player wants to save ammo by shooting the 2 lamps instead of the best method which is acid rounds.

I mean in re6; iluzija is even killed that way; by getting shocked to death.

Meanwhile re3 2020 is obsessed with realism.

If they didnt want the lamp method; then they could have at least put electric rounds to the game so that the player can kill those lame hybrid chicken type of monsters with shocking effect.
 
Come to think of it, even ORC had the clock tower and rail canon room in the USS campaign. A squad based SPINOFF was more FAITHFUL than the supposed REMAKE!
Reorc also creates the scene where nemesis destroys the ubcs chopper with the rocket launcher while in re3 2020, the chopper explodes for no valid reason ( Nemesis isnt seen with the rocket launcher. ) and ethan's car magically appears behind jill when she gets blown up.
 

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thesaunderschild
So Nemesis caused the Las Plagas in RE4 now, according to Capom. LOL. I always assumed they predated Nemesis and most of the other viruses. :D

Did you know RE8 apparently has a merchant as well? This time, an old lady. At least according to this video. Uh. It's all so they can lazily cut and paste assets into the RE4 "remake", which is coming when we're too old and gray to care about Capcom anymore. ;)

 
Only Resident Evil 2 is obsessed with realism. Resident Evil 7 biohazard makes homage to American slashers with farce and grotesque. Resident Evil 3 is obsessed with dramatic pathos: just remember the second form of Nemesis and the rail gun at the end, which was supposed to break all the bones of Jill.
No; re7 and re3 2020 are also obsessed with realism.

Re7 going back to a more survival horror oriented approach after re6 ( Rerev2, a more survival horror oriented entry than 4 / 5 / 6, while being a mainline; isnt numbered and is an interquel. ) and doing things like the change to 1st person perspective, putting ethan to the game who doesnt feel like a character but more like an avatar so that the player can replace themselves with him, the weird chris look ( Thank god they fixed his design in re8. ) as well as toning down the combat system from re6 in the game's action dlcs ( Which is a problem for chris who's an experienced operative cause he uses inferior tactics to handle bows in not a hero. ) are some examples of weird obsession with realism.

Re games always referenced other franchises and media; this isnt new for re7.

Re3 2020 also cuts content from og re3 just like re2 2019 does for og re2 and excuses that for realism.

I'm aware re3 2020 is more action packed than re2 2019 and this isnt surprising considering og re3 is also more action packed than og re2 and is the most action oriented game from pre-re4 mainline entries along with recv.

I personally liked nemesis' 2nd form not to mention ı'm glad they kept the rail gun tbh plus claire wielding a gatling gun against birkin's 4th form feels more unbelievable than jill wielding a rail gun against nemesis' final form. Mainly cause gatling gun was an unlockable in og re2; it wasnt found in environment unlike re2 2019. Meanwhile the rail gun was found in environment at the end of re3; they decided to take a more " linear launcher " method for the weapon in re3 2020.

I dont mind characters doing crazy things while going against the odds in impossible ways but what bothers me is the gutted content and decreased replay value. Starting with re7; fun gameplay features / story features / minigames feel like nerfed just for the sake of survival horror / horror elements.

I really wished re2 2019 and re3 2020 didnt cut content while excusing that for " reimagining " . Remake in 2002 didnt cut content; at least not as much as re2 2019 and re3 2020 did. The only thing it cuts is the scrapbook file. It adds more than cutting; the complete opposite of re2 2019 / re3 2020.

Plus those 3 recent entries feel western oriented and they seem to lose some of the japanese cheese, charm and charisma of the franchise in favor of gritty realism. Not a big fan of how western writers are hired for those games either which is another obsession with realism.
 
Resident Evil 7 biohazard, Resident Evil 2 and Resident Evil 3 are three different games that had a different direction and were created by different people. The fact that they were created on the same engine and have a realistic visual thanks to photogrammetry, does not mean that these games are obsessed with realism. And even the Western form of dialogues does not mean this.

Resident Evil 7 biohazard literally feels like a love letter to the old school of American horror: there's black humor, slapstick, grotesque, and even a chainsaw fight. Even at the very beginning of the game, Ethan's hand is cut off in the best traditions of The Evil Dead, although from the point of view of realism, first, it would be impossible to do this with a chainsaw, and secondly, Ethan would die before defeating Mia. At the same time, speaking of enemies or lore, Resident Evil 7 quietly uses concepts from early games in the series like DNA mimicry.

Resident Evil 2 was obsessed with realism, so, for example, the developers rewritten the ivy and even wanted to give up the alligator. For them, the original was a syncretic fantasy that needed to be grounded.

Resident Evil 3, on the contrary, as the director himself said, was conceived as a dramatic game like Resident Evil 6, for example. Therefore, they made the second form of Nemesis so spectacular and huge, and then made other decisions, so that there was more pathos and drama. This is different from the approach to developing the original, because the original was more realistic.



If you have a limited budget, 3 years to develop, but you need to redo the original in the modern language of game design, you will not be able to cover the entire volume of the original content. This is the root reason why the reimagining were made. The 2002 game still contains two-dimensional backdrops and the old combat system, so the developers, having the resources and knowledge, it was not difficult to redo everything. Now games, animations, and so on are becoming much more complex and require a lot more people. If previously a small team of artists could draw the backdrop of a clock tower and a million other locations, today at least one location is much more difficult to design, and you need to take into account other factors such as contextual animation of enemies and characters. If you think that the developers were just too lazy to make crows or worms, you are very unfair to them.
Sorry but ı dont get it.

You say it's impossible for ethan's hand to be cut off with a chainsaw in a realistic way and yet you think it's possible for claire / leon ( 1st run ) to get blown up by the rpd car in a realistic way while hitting their body very hard to another car only to get up and pretend it never happened? Or what about ada surviving annette's trap only to get her leg hurt followed by her surviving another fall ( Her leg is still hurt and the nest lab is in self destruct with debris falling. ) only to toss a rocket launcher to leon later on? Or what about the scenarios? They dont even connect to each other. Re6, the most action packed mainline entry, had proper campaigns that connected to each other storywise. Why cant re2 2019 do the same, especially when obsessed with realism unlike re6 that isnt obsessed with realism at all?

Re7 and re2 2019 also have dramatic moments and crazy huge monsters just like other games in the series, this isnt exclusive to re3 2020. Where was it said that the devs wanted a dramatic horror experience for re3 2020 just like re6? A source? Steam page doesnt mention " dramatic horror " while the steam page for re6 mentions " dramatic horror " . I got the idea that they wanted to give the game the " not a hero " treatment precisely cause re2 2019 is re7 with re2 skin along with some gameplay elements from remake and rerev2. And the not a hero episode is a more action packed experience compared to main game of re7 just like how re3 is more action packed than re2 and this carried over to re3 2020 and re2 2019 respectively. That's why they wanted to go back to more survival horror oriented / grounded approach with re7 ı think; to reuse that game's style / presentation when remaking / reimagining re2 and re3 which are more survival horror oriented than 4 / 5 / 6.

And ı still dont get how re2 2019 can be obsessed with realism but re7 and re3 2020 cant. What ı said stands. I dont dislike re engine but it isnt used well for those 3 games. This seems to be a problem with resident evil, ı dont have these issues for dmc5 which also use re engine similar to those 3 games but it manages to keep its style and tone similar to past dmc entries not to mention the writer for the game wrote some of the previous dmc entries.

As for the last statement; if they werent going to be faithful to og games, then they shouldnt have remade / reimagined the games. It feels like a waste of resources to recreate the games as " reimaginings " . They promised the fanbase to faithfully recreate the games and yet they get chickened out while going with the reimagining route instead. Not to mention; it also feels like a waste of time to go through those games cause they arent canon due to being " revisiting " . They unnecessarily convoluted the past too; none of the previous games in the series did that, they simply expanded on plot points. They didnt steal previous games' names in an unfaithful way while being seen as " replacements " to public.

Oh and might as well drop these:



 
Resident Evil 7 biohazard and Resident Evil 3 were not positioned as realistic games, but Resident Evil 2 was positioned. That's the difference.

I gave the example of the hand only to show what approach these games had. The developers didn't think about making a realistic situation. They needed to shock and stump the player, so they made this scene. This is not a realistic approach. Moreover, the game at times is not serious about itself. It allows itself self-irony, trash and humor, which Resident Evil 2 never does.

When the developers developed the game, they considered choosing a realistic approach, but then decided to give up realistic puzzles, because, according to the team, this is not what makes the game of this series itself:


Resident Evil 2 was created as a game with a plot that needs to be as grounded as possible. This was a very controversial decision, because the original itself never claimed to be realistic, so it is very difficult to make a realistic story out of it, but the developers tried. And people liked it.

Even the concept of DNA mimicry, thanks to which anthropomorphic plants were born, seemed unrealistic to developers, so they made an analog of Cordyceps from ivy, but in Resident Evil 7, mold is a fungal colony that mimics the human form. Yes, like the ivy from the original or Marcus's mimicry.



From the same site where we learned that Las Plagas and Nemesis are now linked: https://blog.playstation.com/2020/0...ident-evil-resistance-in-new-update-live-now/

I don't know how you can call Resident Evil 3 part of a realistic vision of the series, when it does exactly the same thing as Resident Evil 4: ignores the logic of situations in favor of entertainment and fun.



I am convinced that Resident Evil 7 biohazard is as close as possible to the tone of Resident Evil and Resident Evil Zero with the only difference that now we have westernized dialogues. If you think the series has always had a unified tone, I strongly disagree. If anyone puts Resident Evil 4 on a par with Resident Evil 2002, I would assume that they are different universes.
I watched the re7 video you posted and it just proves my points. The " This is not a realistic approach. " statement of yours is only used for puzzles; mainly cause even for re7; there needs to be a limit in realism obsession. I'm not sure if you played the re games ( At least canon ones. ) in release order / timeline order but if you did that; then you'll understand what ı'm talking about when it comes to re7's weird direction. Some of the statements in that video also annoyed me; like all they cared when it comes to making re7 is " survival horror " . Survival horror is only one piece in the puzzle; it's not the only thing that makes resident evil games, resident evil. Not to mention; resident evil isnt the only survival horror franchise out there. Re7 has an identity crisis; it's like it wants to be a reboot but at the same time; it doesnt.

Re2 2019 also have humorous moments like the end of 2nd run or where claire and leon find each other for the 1st time while rain is happening. " Hope ı dont have to write a report on this. " This line too. Just cause those 3 recent entries are obsessed with realism dont mean they cant have humorous moments. Plus when ı was talking about japanese cheese, charm and charisma of the franchise; ı said " some " , not " all " . Those 3 games still have that but compared to previous entries; they feel nerfed in favor of gritty realism and this causes an identity crisis.

Problem with mold is the files dont reveal the origins of it well and it's not told if it's related to progenitor virus or any virus related to it in the files. I've seen people theorizing that it's related to t-veronica due to hcf getting mentioned but ı dont buy it. It can also be t-virus. And what if it's not related to any progenitor based virus at all? Re2 2019 confuses t and g viruses. With that logic; it can also be said that mold isnt related to progenitor. Plus it lazily steals aspects from other dangerous compounds. Thank you for giving me more examples but ı'll add more. Molded look like bloodshots, fat molded look like a combination of whopper and lepotica and eveline's mutated form looks like a ripoff from carla's mutated form. But anyway; the origins of it should have been fully revealed in re7; ı also have this issue when it comes to plaga which also have some cheapness to it since it's not fully confirmed if that's related to progenitor either. They could have made that parasite connected to progenitor in re5 but capcom didnt do it and instead only left hints. I recommend checking this video to understand what ı'm talking about.


I think capcom should have used c-virus in re7 instead of mold. Especially since re6 got 2 prequels and the files hint at enhanced c-virus being recovered by the family due to them getting their hands on simmons' corpse. Wonder when will leon will store simmons' corpse at a museum...

As for that article:

" Nemesis undergoes an even more dramatic transformation with Type 2 in the RE3 remake compared to the original game. Please discuss the goals and inspirations behind its Type 2 design. "

" In the original game, Nemesis’s second form is simply the restrictions coming off, allowing it to utilize its tentacle attacks. The differentiation from its first form was not as dramatic, both from a visual and gameplay standpoint. Our goal was to make a transformation more dramatic, not only from a visual standpoint, but also from a gameplay standpoint as well. "

It never mentions dramatic horror; it simply talks about nemesis' 2nd mutation and its dramatic effects. They also wanted to increase the drama in re2 2019 when compared to og re2. And ı still dont see how the devs wouldnt want to tone down some aspects of re3 when remaking / reimagining it while also wanting to tone down some aspects of re2 when remaking / reimagining it at the same time. Especially since like ı said; re3 is more action packed / crazier than re2.

I didnt say re games prior to re7 didnt have crazy impossible stuff happening in them but they werent obsessed with realism unlike re7 where starting from that game; capcom got obsessed with realism. Making the games feel both more grounded and more over-the-top absurd at the same time. Clearly that is why stuff had to be cut.

Sorry but ı think re7 along with the recent re2 and re3 feel less like resident evil compared to previous mainline entries. The " westernized " dialogue is one of the reasons. It's no different from saying that dmc reboot stays true to past dmc games' tones even though it doesnt and it's full of edginess while not feeling like devil may cry at all.

I dont think the series had a fully unified tone prior to re7 but ı would say most of the time; they knew when to take themselves seriously and when to not. And the japanese cheese, charisma, charm dont feel like removed from the games / other canon material up until re7 when the series seems to lose its identity in favor of gritty realism in an attempt to get more westernized.

As for re4; the story feels disconnected to canon lore ( Though despite killing umbrella in intro; the story still feels more connected than re7 which feels even more disconnected. ) but it's a good evolution of resident evil. I think re4 ( and re6 ) are better evolutions than re5. Re5 started to disappoint me these days. Not a big fan of the online exclusive gameplay elements or the game focusing mostly on chris and wesker while not focusing that much on sheva ( Her backstory barely any role in the story and due to this; she feels forced to the game just for the sake of being chris' partner. ) and jill, ( The p30 stuff is a lazy way to handle her plus without her antibodies; uroboros would have been more brutal. ) excluding barry and rebecca from the main story when the game's supposed to be a re1 reunion doesnt help either. The racism complaints also hurt the game's potential; ı'm so glad re4 and re6 didnt get racism type of complaints while it's painful to think that re5 got the racism complaints. I'm still glad it made re4 more connected to lore though but wesker's death could have been done better just like umbrella's destruction could have been done better. ( Both umbrella chronicles and re5 are written by the same person just like how darkside chronicles and re6 are written by another same person and ı prefer darkside / re6 to umbrella / re5. )

Might as well drop this essay:

" I disagree about re4; ı'm honestly glad it turned out the way it did. I prefer it over re 3,5 every single time. I think they were planning to kill leon in that version. Not to mention the weird supernatural elements it has along with hookman. ( Which came back in re7 for a weird reason. )

It's awesome and one of the best games ever. Plus the re games started to become more action oriented with re2 anyways. 4 / 5 / 6 being the way they are made sense; both from gameplay and story perspective.

Though ı have to agree that the game is a bit overrated, just a bit. I dont like when people say it's a flawless masterpiece. ( Overpraising re4 to heavens while overbashing re6 to death for example which is extremely annoying. ) I love re games; they are awesome but none of them are flawless masterpiece imo. All of them have at least one small aspect that annoys me, especially after replaying the games multiple times.

One thing that bothers me about re4 for example is mikami not hiring a writer for a weird reason. Plus killing umbrella in the intro is a weird decision mainly cause re2 / re3 / recv's endings heavily hinted at characters taking down umbrella. The main cast is still memorable though. ( Excluding re7 and the newest " remakes " ; all main re games have good story imo and have memorable main cast with the exception of rerev. While the story is good and ı found the backstory of bsaa interesting, characters feel boring. I think it's due to voice acting. I remember seeing somewhere; a interview or something, the devs told / forced the voice actors to sound dull or something. It's not as bad as re1 obviously but still pretty weird. Plus no patricia ja lee for jill... )

But anyways; ı also like plaga, the backstory is interesting unlike the lame mold in re7. Plus after t-virus and zombies; it feels like a nice change to keep things fresh. In terms of plaga monsters; ı prefer the ones in re4 over the ones in re5 even though re5 has a better story than re4 imo. I wished c-virus also appeared in another mainline entry tbh similar to how plaga appeared in re5 as well as the last 2 cgi movies.

I wouldnt call it a " reboot " unlike re7. Not even gameplaywise, mainly cause like ı said; the games started to become more action oriented with re2 and they continued this process in re3 and recv as well. The change in re4 ( And later on in re5 and re6. ) make sense. Storywise; it still follows previous re games, especially when it comes to leon and ada. ( Meanwhile for re7; they decided to call the main character " Ethan Winters " in an attempt to reference re5 but this doesnt work and comes off lame mainly cause " Ethan W. " died after 1998. )

Another thing ı want to say is ı dont think capcom knows to follow the storyline after re6. That's why they are remaking the games in a half baked way for quick nostalgia cause they are out of ideas. I mean remaking re4 literally says that. "
 
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