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 Post subject: Re: Sheva ... really
PostPosted: Sep 17, 2010 4:23 
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Big Truth
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IkariWarriorKH wrote:
So I'm not really sure why you're getting all up in arms against me for it and calling 'me' dramatic when I'm not the one making a HUGE deal over Sheva's AI.
Read over the last few pages, yes you are.

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 Post subject: Re: Sheva ... really
PostPosted: Sep 17, 2010 6:34 
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Uhm stu? Read the first page of this topic alone and then get back to me on 'drama'......

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 Post subject: Re: Sheva ... really
PostPosted: Sep 17, 2010 10:04 
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Big Truth
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Hahaha

Ok, i'll concentrate on one page out of seven.

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"I generally like to think of Stu as the guy who kinda says what the rest
of us can't always do ourself. Maybe not exactly the type of poster we
need, but the kind we deserve! You know, like the speech Gordon gives
his son at the end of The Dark Knight?"
Carnivol, June 2010

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 Post subject: Re: Sheva ... really
PostPosted: Sep 17, 2010 14:26 
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Whatever man, I'm really not going to keep going back and forth on this. This is really petty.

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 Post subject: Re: Sheva ... really
PostPosted: Sep 17, 2010 14:27 
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Big Truth
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Agreed, which is why i was trying to put it to bed on the previous page. I just couldn't resist you saying you weren't making a huge deal, that's all.

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"I generally like to think of Stu as the guy who kinda says what the rest
of us can't always do ourself. Maybe not exactly the type of poster we
need, but the kind we deserve! You know, like the speech Gordon gives
his son at the end of The Dark Knight?"
Carnivol, June 2010

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 Post subject: Re: Sheva ... really
PostPosted: Sep 18, 2010 20:12 
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Random Cover Guy
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So i actually found Chris's Ai to be much worse then Sheva's. Chris is like a giant meat-head! lol

Personally, though I would say that the "crappier or worse" Sheva's Ai is for a player, the worse the USER is. With AI you have to know how to manage it. I had no trouble with the Ai at the exeption of Pro difficulty. If you have a "hard" time with Sheva's Ai then you don't know how to play the game properly.

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 Post subject: Re: Sheva ... really
PostPosted: Sep 19, 2010 1:33 
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Big Truth
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A Ganado Zombie wrote:
With AI you have to know how to manage it.
AI stands for Articificial Intelligence, you shouldn't need to manage it yourself, that's the idea.

Other game's can handle weapon management perfectly, there's no reason Resident Evil 5 couldn't have done the same. Not to mention that to say you should manage it yourself, you're throwing an extra hurdle in the way for the majority that wouldn't return to the game for a second playthrough.

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of us can't always do ourself. Maybe not exactly the type of poster we
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his son at the end of The Dark Knight?"
Carnivol, June 2010

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 Post subject: Re: Sheva ... really
PostPosted: Sep 19, 2010 2:44 
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Pressing B to tell her to cover you/move/help you, and pressing Up + B to tell her to attack at YOUR convenience is a 'hurdle'? Seriously?

She functions fine on her own without needing you to tell her anything. Yet, you still have the ability to command her to do what you want more specifically. So if she is causing problems for you in that she's not working how you 'want' her to work, you can simply 'tell' her how to work.

Example being, she'll more than happily help you fight and shoot stuff for you and cover you without you ever having to do anything(And her Aim is near dead-on). However, if you're somehow annoyed that she's only using a handgun and want her to use the rifle instead, just put her on attack and she will. Same if you want her to take point and scout ahead, acting independently rather than play tag along.

Her AI actually allows you to have control over her so she's NOT wasting ammo on heavy guns when you don't want her to, but does in fact use them when you 'do' want her to etc. And it doesn't take time and effort to manage her, it's as simple as hitting B or Up+B. The ignorance of the majority of gamers to read tutorials blatantly placed in the game, as well as the manual the game comes with, and the in-game control menu as well is not the AI's fault, it's the players fault. There's 3 different places, 2 of which are in-game and near impossible to miss that show you how to control Sheva and switch her to attack or cover. If you ignore all of that, you have no one to blame but yourself.

And micro managing resources in the inventory is no different than when you do it with a friend and share ammo and trade items. So there's no real reason to complain about having to ask her for ammo or heals or weapons because you do the same exact thing with other players. Keep in mind, she already hands you ammo and heals you automatically all the time. So the only time you have to even go into her inventory is when 'you' want her to do something more specific. Aka you 'choosing' to control her inventory as well as your own.

So acting like Sheva is in an RTS where you need to micro-manage everything she does is silly. Again, she acts perfectly capable on her own without input from the player. However, again, should you desire specific actions from her, you can make her do them. I don't see how making a fully independant yet also controllable AI creates a hurdle for the player.

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 Post subject: Re: Sheva ... really
PostPosted: Sep 19, 2010 8:26 
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Big Truth
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IkariWarriorKH wrote:
Pressing B to tell her to cover you/move/help you, and pressing Up + B to tell her to attack at YOUR convenience is a 'hurdle'? Seriously?
Is that what i said? No it's not. I'm working on the assumption that Gareth by "management" meant more than simply pressing the b-button. If it's not, that i needn't have bothered replying in the first place because it's that laughable.

I stopped reading your post at that point. I figured you wouldn't want to make a huge deal of it right? haha

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"I generally like to think of Stu as the guy who kinda says what the rest
of us can't always do ourself. Maybe not exactly the type of poster we
need, but the kind we deserve! You know, like the speech Gordon gives
his son at the end of The Dark Knight?"
Carnivol, June 2010

I am the cause of all your problems...


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 Post subject: Re: Sheva ... really
PostPosted: Sep 19, 2010 17:19 
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Dark Dimension Ruler
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Stu wrote:
IkariWarriorKH wrote:
Pressing B to tell her to cover you/move/help you, and pressing Up + B to tell her to attack at YOUR convenience is a 'hurdle'? Seriously?
Is that what i said? No it's not. I'm working on the assumption that Gareth by "management" meant more than simply pressing the b-button. If it's not, that i needn't have bothered replying in the first place because it's that laughable.

I stopped reading your post at that point. I figured you wouldn't want to make a huge deal of it right? haha


You very clearly make an in-general statement about AI in regards to what you quoted, but THEN follow up by stating "Other games have done this, there's no reason RE5 couldn't do the same" which then changes your 'general' statement into a specific one making claims about management in RE5's AI. Thus my post.

All A Ganado said was that if you're having a hard time with Sheva's AI, its because you don't know how to manage it. Your reply stated that if you 'need' to control her there's the problem. My reply to your post pretty much explains that 1) There isn't a 'need' to manage Sheva's AI in the first place, but, 2) Should you desire more specific actions from her/are getting annoyed by her not doing what YOU want her to do to accomodate your style of play, you 'can' control/manage her. And by controllling her it takes nothing more than hitting B or Up+B. Neither of which requires any true effort from the player to possibly consider it a hurdle for them.

That's the only reason I replied to your quote, otherwise I would have agreed with you had you left it at an in-general statement in regards to what he said. Because in that instance you'd be arguing against his wording, rather than trying to imply things about the AI itself, which I would have agreed with you on as stated.

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