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PostPosted: Jan 01, 2012 7:19 
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http://www.aclu.org/national-security/p ... n-bill-law

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WASHINGTON – President Obama signed the National Defense Authorization Act (NDAA) into law today. The statute contains a sweeping worldwide indefinite detention provision. While President Obama issued a signing statement saying he had “serious reservations” about the provisions, the statement only applies to how his administration would use the authorities granted by the NDAA, and would not affect how the law is interpreted by subsequent administrations. The White House had threatened to veto an earlier version of the NDAA, but reversed course shortly before Congress voted on the final bill.

“President Obama's action today is a blight on his legacy because he will forever be known as the president who signed indefinite detention without charge or trial into law,” said Anthony D. Romero, ACLU executive director. “The statute is particularly dangerous because it has no temporal or geographic limitations, and can be used by this and future presidents to militarily detain people captured far from any battlefield. The ACLU will fight worldwide detention authority wherever we can, be it in court, in Congress, or internationally.”

Under the Bush administration, similar claims of worldwide detention authority were used to hold even a U.S. citizen detained on U.S. soil in military custody, and many in Congress now assert that the NDAA should be used in the same way again. The ACLU believes that any military detention of American citizens or others within the United States is unconstitutional and illegal, including under the NDAA. In addition, the breadth of the NDAA’s detention authority violates international law because it is not limited to people captured in the context of an actual armed conflict as required by the laws of war.

“We are incredibly disappointed that President Obama signed this new law even though his administration had already claimed overly broad detention authority in court,” said Romero. “Any hope that the Obama administration would roll back the constitutional excesses of George Bush in the war on terror was extinguished today. Thankfully, we have three branches of government, and the final word belongs to the Supreme Court, which has yet to rule on the scope of detention authority. But Congress and the president also have a role to play in cleaning up the mess they have created because no American citizen or anyone else should live in fear of this or any future president misusing the NDAA’s detention authority.”

The bill also contains provisions making it difficult to transfer suspects out of military detention, which prompted FBI Director Robert Mueller to testify that it could jeopardize criminal investigations. It also restricts the transfers of cleared detainees from the detention facility at Guantanamo Bay to foreign countries for resettlement or repatriation, making it more difficult to close Guantanamo, as President Obama pledged to do in one of his first acts in office.


Keep fucking that chicken, America.

Also, once again, Obama has been easily manipulated by Congress (and more specifically; Republicans). Someone covered the whole thing already on another forum, so rather than regurgitate, here it is:

Quote:
TL;DR The President's opponents played the electorate like a fiddle and will get away with it because people don't seem to realize they've been tricked into being angry at the wrong person.
He signed it because if he didn't, defense spending including benefits to veterans and their families would not have been authorized. The sections of NDAA that many people here seem to have a problem with are sections that were added into the document by primarily Republican legislators and which the President adamantly opposes but was powerless to stop.

I'll repeat that: the parts of this bill that many people here hate were included against the President's wishes and in a way that he is powerless to stop. The only way he could have stopped these sections from being included would have been to try to veto the bill in its entirety, a move that would have been both political suicide as well as being futile, as Congress would simply have overridden him. He is explicit in his opposition to exactly the parts of the bill everyone here hates, going so far as to detail exactly which sections he opposes and why.

You'll notice that the bill also restricts his ability to close Guantanamo Bay; this isn't coincidence. These sections are openly hostile to the President's stated mandate - they are effectively a giant 'fuck you' to the President, as well as a nasty way of eroding the President's support with his own base. Observe:

Draft legislation that is almost guaranteed to piss of the President but more importantly piss of his base.

Attach said legislation to another piece of larger, more important legislation like, say, the Defense Spending budget for the entire year so that any attempt to dislodge the offensive legislation will result in a political shitstorm, as well as place the larger legislation in jeopardy.
Once attached, begin a PR campaign that highlights the offending legislation and brings it to the attention of as many media outlets as possible - not just the traditional media, but alternative media outlets as well (Fox news, MSNBC, Media Matters, Huff-Po, Infowars, etc.)

Here's where it gets tricky: Simultaneously, speak to both your party's base and the opposition's. To your base, argue that the legislation is necessary to 'Keep America safe' and that the President, by opposing it, is clearly soft of terrorism and endangering the military by trying to strip the legislation out.

At the same time, sit back and watch your opponent's liberal supporters tear into the offending legislation as being dangerous, anti-democratic, and a threat to civil liberties. You know they will; that's what they care about most. You've designed legislation that will make them froth at the mouth. You don't even have to keep flogging the message; one look at the legislation will be enough to convince most people that it is anathema to everything they hold dear. Because it is.
Pass the 'parent' legislation. Doing so forces the President to sign it or attempt to veto it.

Since the legislation in question just so happens to be the military's operating budget, a veto is out of the question. The President must sign the bill, you get the legislation you wanted, but you also practically guarantee that your opponent's base will be furious at him for passing a bill they see as evil. Even if he tries to explain in detail why he had to sign it and what he hates about it, it won't matter; ignorance of the American political process, coupled with an almost militant indifference to subtle explanations will almost ensure that most people will only remember that the President passed a bill they hate.

Profit. you get the legislation you want, while the President has to contend with a furious base that feels he betrayed them - even though he agrees with their position but simply lacked the legislative tools to stop this from happening. It's a classic piece of misdirection that needs only two things to work: A lack of principles (or a partisan ideology that is willing to say anything - do anything - to win), and an electorate that is easy to fool.

This is pretty basic political maneuvering and the biggest problem is that it almost always works because most people either don't know or don't care how their political system actually functions. The President was saddled with a lose-lose situation where he either seriously harmed American defense policy (political suicide), or passed offensive legislation knowing that it would cost him political capital.

To all of you here lamenting that you ever voted for this 'corporate shill', congratulations: you are the result the Republicans were hoping for. They get the law they want, they get the weakened Presidential candidate they want. And many of you just don't seem to see that. You don't have to like your country's two-party system, but it pays to be able to understand it so that you can recognize when it's being used like this.

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PostPosted: Jan 01, 2012 8:43 
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Holy shit. Fuck. Please God let the Supreme Court not be fucking retarded.

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PostPosted: Jan 01, 2012 14:21 
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News Bot wrote:
Also, once again, Obama has been easily manipulated by Congress (and more specifically; Republicans

itt News Bot blindly worships Obama and his fellow socialists.
"Oh I love Obama so much, so lets just ignore facts and blame the Republicans and Libertarians for everything"


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PostPosted: Jan 01, 2012 14:31 
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Jill Sandwich
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I guarantee you that if a conservative or libertarian president signed this, the mainstream media (including News Bot) would be up in arms. Stop making excuses for Obama and his globalist dictators in Europe.


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PostPosted: Jan 01, 2012 15:47 
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I admit, I'm not entirely clear on why this is such a big deal. The US has been holding people, without trial or legal representation, for years now. Is the big change simply now that it can happen on US folks as well as everyone else that's the issue? Because it was never cool before.

Still, not a good thing for America. Hopefully this'll be scrapped.


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PostPosted: Jan 01, 2012 15:51 
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Darkmoon wrote:
I admit, I'm not entirely clear on why this is such a big deal. The US has been holding people, without trial or legal representation, for years now. Is the big change simply now that it can happen on US folks as well as everone else that's the issue? Because it was never cool before.

Still, not a good thing for America. Hopefully this'll be scrapped.

The big change is that it now can be used to eliminate political enemies. Anything that can be abused will be abused.

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PostPosted: Jan 01, 2012 15:54 
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Jill Sandwich
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Darkmoon wrote:
I admit, I'm not entirely clear on why this is such a big deal. The US has been holding people, without trial or legal representation, for years now. Is the big change simply now that it can happen on US folks as well as everone else that's the issue? Because it was never cool before.

There's a big difference between holding some alien terrorist and holding an American without trial or legal representation.


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PostPosted: Jan 01, 2012 16:23 
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Dizzynecro wrote:
The big change is that it now can be used to eliminate political enemies. Anything that can be abused will be abused.


Very true, and very unpleasant. Of course, it can't be used like that in reality without a significant restructuring in other places and a heavy control of the media, or it'll cause a riot, but the potential started in the Patriot Act certainly seems to be growing...

Ununoctium wrote:
There's a big difference between holding some alien terrorist and holding an American without trial or legal representation.


Well, as a non US person it just evens up the playing field. The US can and has been holding people without trial. I'm not sure if any of them were American, but I know there were some Brits. So since I'm of the mindset that all people should be treated fairly and equally, shouldn't you be upset that ANYONE in the Land of the Free can be held for the rest of there life, tortured and abused without even a trial, not just Americans?


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PostPosted: Jan 01, 2012 16:48 
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Jill Sandwich
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Welcome to 1984, led by Obama and Barosso, the "Big Brothers."


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PostPosted: Jan 01, 2012 16:59 
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Fortes Fortuna Juvat
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Project Umbrella

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Ununoctium wrote:
News Bot wrote:
Also, once again, Obama has been easily manipulated by Congress (and more specifically; Republicans

itt News Bot blindly worships Obama and his fellow socialists.
"Oh I love Obama so much, so lets just ignore facts and blame the Republicans and Libertarians for everything"


I don't even like Obama or agree with him, and I haven't ever since he became President. I am just not a blind moron willing to pass blame at a moment's notice, and possess the ability to do basic research. You should look into that and bother attempting to read.

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Their struggle for existence is over for the time being.
But a sin violating sanctuary isn't forgiven.
This is not just an end.
This is the end of a beginning.


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