Really? It's pretty simple logic what was explained. Things that are 'gameplay' related such as all the puzzles and keys, ammo, herbs, etc. just lying around and their varying locations based on who you're playing as etc., are not canon and hold no official barring over the storyline. They have nothing to do with story and therefore are never even remotely considered as such in the story.

Marvin's encounter has nothing to do with gameplay, it's a story element and therefore is canon.

Again, it's pretty simple logic.


On the same token, News Bot, that's what I was trying to explain to you and batman about ORC's what if elements. They're gameplay elements despite being story segments. Despite the fact they are indeed 'story' related, they're still gameplay elements no different than what was just mentioned above. They're not canon and therefore don't change the existing storyline because of their inclusion. It's no different than allowing Rebecca or Barry to die in RE1 based on the choices you make. Yes, they're a part of the story, but, they're not canon, they're simply gameplay elements.

So I wouldn't get too fussed over ORC's canon being destroyed yet until we know all the details. And so far, outside of a few minor things like nemesis' origins, the canon seems intact. The USS/Birkin thing doesn't really affect the canon so far from what we've been told. And the stuff that is wrong like Nemesis etc. simply gets ignored much the same as the the RE3 segment of UC was etc.

IkariWarriorKH seems to have the right idea, but frankly everyone is obsessing over preserving the canon when the truth of the matter is that Capcom doesn't know or care anymore than Slant Six. The early feed of this game relished in changing the outcome of RE2 and RE3 branding that you can kill characters like Leon. It was a bold step in a new direction for the series. You're playing Umbrella villains doing a bunch of villain stuff. Designing the game to fit in the canon is for the sake of nit-picking fans who are just going to rip it apart anyway. It's going to be a big mess for them because regardless there will be changes made and they are unable to accept it.

This was how I felt with Umbrella Chronicles when I first played it. People will argue that it's not made by slant six and Capcom knew what kind of game it was. To them I say that's a B.S. excuse. If you're going to get allover Slant Six for making obvious changes or minor inaccuracies then you need to go to the source first. And that my friends is Capcom.

You see all this discussion about game play should only tell you one simple thing: The game play is at the forefront with this franchise. The story has to appease to it first. Why are their scenarios separating these characters into their own puzzles and adventures? Game play. Why does Resident Evil's canon have it to where Chris, Jill, Barry and Rebecca escape when the original and remake of the first game make no attempt and bridging such an ending together? Game play.

Umbrella Chronicles botches up their time line, order of events, characters and dates all for the sake of making a "summary". Well, if Capcom's idea of summarizing RE3 was having Carlos and Jill mangle in a subway terminal then that should tell you how much (or little) that actually care. Those were pointless changes. And lazy ones at that since they look to come from that Outbreak game more than RE3. And was this purely for the sake of game play? I'd like to think so, but the truth is Capcom could have designed actual locations from RE3 and had the rail shooting experience in those areas. But they were lazy.

The story is all over the place too. Usually summaries and historical events capture the highlights and use them to further a streaming plot along. In this case it was how Wesker took over Umbrella. But unless you're a die hard fan who played the other games in the series I think the average Wii game will be confused by the mish-mash of information. Who are Barry and Nicholai? Obviously these files mention some kind of importance but I can't find them anywhere in the game. Rebecca mentions that Edward died. Who's that? Was he one of the random zombies I shot in that train section?

And even fans like myself have to ask the obvious. Ada and HUNK escape the city from its destruction yet Jill does the same and the date in which she does is off. Why have Ivan tyrants at all? Sure they make for challenging fights in-game, but to the story's credit it tarnishes the point of having T-002 at all. When you have obedient, powerful tyrants clothes and ready for combat then there's no reason to have a proto-tyrant or T-002. I knew Wesker was full of it when he said "ultimate life form", but we never realized how full of it.

If you want a Resident Evil rail shooter with some form of narrative to it which doesn't recycle as much then you're better off with Darkside Chronicles. But even then you're going to get changes made "to summarize". Alfred couldn't die after waking Alexia like in Code Veronica. Capcom wanted to "summarize" his fate by having an additional scene of Alexia outright killing him.

Now keep in mind that Slant Six had no involvement with these errors. It comes back to the source. And this is who Slant Six relies on to approve of their own ideas. They were hired by them to bring something new to the table. Problem is die hard fans are going to be in an uproar if the slightest character has so much as a scratch on them. Oh wait, that's Nicholai.

Who cares why Birkin has UBSC drones with him? They're expendable enemies in an action game. Who cares if Nemesis is a T-002 now? You're not here to research the plot of how the Nemesis came to be. You're here to presumably (and hopefully) fight the guy in a tactical based shooter.

The story is the last thing you should worry about. But I know some fans are going to play this delicately and try to avoid messing with the canon in any form. Is that really how you want to have fun with this? I'm just excited that I get to fight alongside HUNK, clash against Leon or see what other kinds of sneaky crap Nicholai will be up to. I'll be happy to use the over-the-shoulder game play to fight classic RE creatures and bosses. I'm part of the U.S.S. I'm given order to hunt down Leon. My aim will be to do just that.

Umbrella Chronicles was never meant to be canon outside of Umbrella's End and elements of the bonus scenarios. You are completely correct that the BH0, BH1 and BH3 scenarios were pointless, but they were there just to bridge the narrative since Umbrella's End alone wouldn't be able to carry an entire game. Considering they never wanted those summary sections to be accurate or even part of the actual story, all of the changes they made for the sake of cutting time into brief 30 minute on-rail sections don't even matter. They are irrelevant in every regard and bringing them up when talking about story issues is pointless since they aren't the story. Operation Raccoon City has no excuse except bad writers who can't even read.

How is Jill's date off? Ada and Jill escape at the exact same time and HUNK escapes at the same time as Leon and Claire. T-002 was made in the early 90s and deemed obsolete once the new T-103 was developed, hence why Umbrella in BH1 wanted to destroy it. All they wanted was its combat data to help improve the new T-103 and mass produce it. There is no discrepancy with the existence of the Ivans. If anything, their existence explained exactly why Umbrella didn't care for retrieving the "ultimate life form" and how a better Tyrant existed in BH2.

I completely agree that the Chronicles series were fuck-ups for the most part, with the "historic summary" sections being completely worthless. However, up until Operation Raccoon City (unless the game miraculously fits) the story has been completely coherent and very well maintained considering the amount of different writers it has had with very little contradictions, mistakes, plot holes or retcons. While CAPCOM's writers have aimed to maintain consistency and done a great job considering, Slant Six Games aim for nothing more than self-masturbatory development of a game that bears very little resemblance to the series it belongs to in order to actually give themselves a reputation that exists, and they are willing to fuck up as much as they can along the way. Until they got to develop a Resident Evil game, they were virtually unknown aside from their development of a game that was broken.

Nobody is saying the game itself won't be fun. Either you care for the story or not. If you don't, that's completely good for you. It's just incredibly retarded to completely undo 15 years of writing for a game which is, in itself, supposed to be a re-tread. Yet when not one bit of very, very minor and very much reiterated information is reproduced, there is a pretty big issue. And it all comes down to bad writing, carelessness and laziness. Probably a dose of being illiterate.

Of course the game can prove me wrong entirely but so far they have not presented anything redeeming. They could have made everyone happy by just saying that it is an alternative universe "what-if" title, which the series already has quite a lot of. But instead, they are insistent that a game which doesn't fit, fits.

Umbrella's End could have carried an entire game if Capcom wanted it to. As it stands they instead chose to opt out and make the game a chronology. It's a confusing mash up of a game, and if it was made to introduce Wii gamers to the franchise they did a terrible job summarizing events of that canon. Their canon. A game that has canon and uncanon events will be confusing to gamers. And the series from its early carnations is guilty of this with each scenario, ending and character selection. You mention bad writing. There's no excuse for Edward to be brought up anywhere in Umbrella Chronicles if he has no role to play in their own summarized events. There's no need for a filler character to bridge the games (and tyrants) together when when the original games work just as well without his involvement. This is what they choose to highlight to pass on to the gamers. They couldn't even get that right. And you're expecting Slant Six to do their research better when the people in charge of approving their work are just as guilty as they are with this content. What Capcom did offer in terms of additions are still terrible and make little sense for the chronicles. The Ivan tyrants being a prime example as I earlier mentioned.



Not according to Umbrella Chronicles. Unless you're a die hard fan familiar with the earlier games you're expected to believe Raccoon's Destruction occurred at two different dates. Again, the error is on Capcom based on what they chose to convey.



Another excuse. We're lead to believe the combat data would be necessary when the Ivan already was functional to the point of guarding the filler Umbrella baddie. Wesker's bragging rights on the T-002 make even less sense and the inclusion of Ivans undermines the tyrants from RE Zero and RE1. If Slant Six handled this then gamers would have a s*** storm of how their presence ruins the established bosses. None of this (nor the movie referenced Red Queen AI) were needed to make the mansion incident more meatier. Instead it became mediocre.



You can't make the claim that fifteen years worth of writing is ruined from Slant Six. Everyone knows this is a spin off. If there's canon to be had here it will not ruin people's enjoyment of the RE2 and RE3 stories. But even those games had to have their canon pieced together. You don't play RE2 and get a coherent canon storyline anymore than you do with RE1. So what you perceive as "the ultimate truth" in the RE games can play out differently to someone else as we've seen with these debates on what Leon and Claire specifically did. We can excuse any changes Capcom has done as minor which is what you do. Likewise the same can be said for Slant Six. Does the average gamer care if Nemesis is a T-002? Not many people call him anything except Nemesis anyways. It's a simple error from a falsified source that was approved by a lazy company giving them the right to add the error.



Which is exactly what Capcom has already done. You can say those "summaries" are non-canon, but this was the laziness of Capcom for those games. They re-tread, tried to add new elements in the canon, and re-wrote history knowingly aware of their changes and how they effect the narrative.

So here's what you do if you actually still give a crap about the story anymore. Play ORC and pick and choose what is canon and not. If anything conflicts with your own sense of canon then brush it off. But of you're going to brag about lazy poor writing keep in mind where their inspiration comes from. Incoherent narratives and a lazy company that will happily slap them a gold star so long as the game play is fun.



They have done that. The irony is that the whole "canon" play through that has been recently assured to the fans is for people who were upset that the game encouraged such drastic changes. The early previews relished in the idea of playing USS members killing Leon and going to town on the city. That is exactly how one should look at this game. Your objective as Umbrella employees is not to preserve the canon. It's to destroy all evidence of your company's involvement and do their bidding in the process. Whether the game is actually fun or not I can't say. What I can say is that some of you are trying too hard to brand Slant Six as the problem for the canon taking a dive. It's not their fault. They were hired to make Capcom's next game under their supervision. One thing the two developers have in common with the RE games is that the game play will always be more important to them than the story. We know how Capcom treats their "canon" when remakes and spin offs fail to deliver something coherent and have to be passed off as non-canon because of it. Give the team some slack and if you think there's nothing to be salvaged then toss it aside. You still have RE1 which has no canon ending, RE2 with four different scenarios and RE3 with quick time events that determine what Jill does in Raccoon City and how she escapes. That experience will always be there and the Wolf Pack will never take that away unless you want them to in their own game.

Umbrella Chronicles was actually more of a lame test than anything else. The concept was "can we make this series a rail shooter?" I don't think a full game dedicated to taking down Umbrella would have worked, and with UC they did it in such a way that it fit better with previous entries in the series, while adding new things and expanding the overall story while staying consistent. The Ivans fit perfectly and contradict literally nothing. They are not a prime example of anything, except that CAPCOM is still able to maintain consistency. UC is terrible though. Luckily, they made it clear that the summary chapters mean dick. Again, they are not relevant to this discussion or any other, and are in no way similar to Operation Raccoon City for reasons I've already stated.



Uhh, it does. The first two Raccoon's Destruction scenarios take place on September 28. The final one takes place on October 1. Even if the RD scenarios don't actually label the date, Death's Door does anyway.



Not an excuse at all. It was already part of the T-103's biography in BH2. Combat data from the T-002 was necessary to mass produce the T-103. The T-002 was the prototype for every Tyrant following, it was still the "ultimate life form". All Tyrants in general were. The only real difference between it and the T-103 series is its appearance. Their combat abilities and vitality etc are pretty much the same at the time of the mansion incident, hence the need for the T-002's combat data to make improvements. Of course the Ivans undermine the T-001 and T-002. They are newer. There is no contradiction. The Hypnos-T Type was also developed in 1998. The only thing we don't know is when the T-103 was first developed.

You can say they weren't needed, but nothing is "needed". As long as it fits, I have no issue with them adding anything. Nothing presented by Slant Six so far fits, despite their insistence.



According to CAPCOM and Slant Six, it is not a spin-off. You're right that BH1, BH2 and BH3 don't have their canon laid out in the game, but this was for the sake of gameplay. Their respective canon events are outlined in supplemental material and later games. Also, Slant Six only sent their scenario changes and additions for approval. It is highly doubtful that CAPCOM have any say in the more minor elements of the game. The ability to fuck up minor info that has been set in stone for over a decade is just a testament to Slant Six's ineptitude.



What have they already done then, exactly? They didn't try to rewrite history in either of the Chronicles games, or any other game in general. The stuff they did add does not conflict with any previously established events of information in virtually any way. The "historic summaries" literally do not fucking matter at all. Bringing them up as your only argument is pointless, especially when they have nothing in common with Operation Raccoon City. The latter is touted as a full-fledged story title in the main series.



Well this I agree with. It still does not excuse Slant Six being awful and unable to read.

Capcom hasn't maintained consistency. The narrative is confusing as hell, and the additional content does not make the established canon work because of it. Especially with the way they delve into the Ivans and tyrants.

They don't fit perfectly, and only provide worthless filler. Red Queen and Sergei also fit into that mix.

Any concept could work as a full Resident Evil game even a silly premise about Leon saving the President's Daughter from a cult. I'm telling you that it's not impossible to make a full game based on Umbrellas downfall. UC was lame and lazy. It's new content didn't serve anything to help the main series and only created more questions rather than answers because everything they actually "reveal" lead to things we already knew in the long run.



Again the narrative doesn't explain anything of the sort, and you're left to have to piece it together because the other chapters say otherwise. The entirety of Jill's chapter took place overnight with no caption or mention to suggest a time difference and the section plays off that it occurred in the span of the night contradicting the date HUNK and Ada escaped. This was something acknowledged over in THIA.



It is a contradiction in the sense that their existence and place over the events of the mansion incident do not work with the tyrants made in RE zero and RE1, and further combat data wouldn't be needed from an inferior model because of their existence.

And it doesn't just end with tyrants, but events as well. Rebecca contributes new content to the narrative to show how Richard was bitten by YAWN. Another contradiction to new material added was that Rebecca shouldn't know how Richard was attacked because in RE1 and REmake she finds Richard in the state he's in and makes a guess as to what bit him noting the size of the wound.

These are the little inconsistencies that relate all too well with ORC.



How could it not fit? You have no quarrel ignoring inaccurate dates to events so we can do that with ORC. The technology is advanced if we can accept the Red Queen AI working into the canon. The tyrants going back and forth on what's ultimate, how they were made be it clone or other means, and the unnecessary combat data from obsolete versions don't matter so neither does the bosses we face in ORC.

Even the arguments over UBCS seem like you're grasping at straws. What's to say every member had to arrive on that exact day? And whomever wrote the file had no knowledge that some of the hired guns had been taken by Birkin to protect him?

If new content can make direct contradictions like the case with Rebecca then why not ORC? If I cared about a streamline canon then these would be things to point out and look into.



Supplemental material and later games. Very important here. We're judging a game based on the game itself. But we can't judge the games of RE1, RE2 and RE3 simply because there's outside work in those games to stream a canon for you. And later games do not always paint the clear cut picture. The Chronicles games summarize them with little effort, and the direct sequels do not re-tell anything other than to say "this is here and that's that".

Kawata is producing ORC and treats it as a new direction for the series which is why he said it's kind of a spin off. He also goes on to say it's not necessarily entirely in the canon, but it's totally immersed in the mythology. So I'd say that makes it a spin off more than a main entry. He acknowledges it's not entirely in the canon for a reason. This has been known since early 2011 for a lot of gamers. All the buzz about fitting perfectly into the canon caters to nitpickers, but the truth of it is right there. Nothing more and nothing less.



It doesn't contradict or conflict because you write it off as if "it doesn't matter" so of course it won't for you. It does matter to gamers though if they actually care what Capcom wants to pass on in any sort of story-telling. A game like ORC obviously matters to you to be so judgmental on it for any inaccuracies to the canon even though its producer points out that it doesn't fit entirely. Especially if these games are to bring in a new crowd of RE gamers. The canon has been a mess up for a while now. And if you need supplemental material made after the game's release to work on a timeline then there's a problem to be had here with good writing and a strong narrative for the games themselves. In your case I'd recommend waiting for the inevitable Umbrella Archives that adds ORC in at a later date.

I'll say it again, the Ivans contradict nothing. T-001 and T-002 were developed between 1988-1998. T-103 was developed in the late 90s. This was the case since BH2. I really don't see the issue you're having with understanding it. I had the same reaction as you until I actually bothered thinking about it. "Ultimate life form" refers to the Tyrant series in general. Not a specific type.



Other than that I basically agree with you. UC is a mess in places but it fits and its main contribution is Umbrella's End. Also, Sergei's helicopter is seen reflected in Jill's helicopter at the end of Raccoon's Destruction. Only an idiot wouldn't be able to make the simple connection and deduce that Jill escaped on October 1.

Of course nobody should play UC for an overview of the story anyway. It's not well-written but doesn't contradict anything too heavily, and they were honest about contradictory stuff being able to be disregarded. Not so with ORC, which contradicts everything it can just because.



Actually he was mistranslated. He says it is fully integrated into the chronology. Spin off hasn't been used once as far as I know. Slant Six themselves say it is fully canon and contradicts nothing at all and they haven't altered the canon in any way. Bullshit obviously.

Ah but you see it does. Excusing it's place in the canon is fine and all, but their existence contradicts what we know about the tyrants we already face. You don't continue to use combat data from an obsolete tyrant to improve the already functional on the line model already in use. If they were improving tyrants the logical thing to do would be to have combat data on the most up to date tyrant and see where they'd improve from there.

Bad writing to place in these guys is noted.



It doesn't matter. If we're taking new material into account we still get contradictions like the Rebecca/YAWN example. Now we're narrowing new material to simply just the bare bones end of umbrella chapter and not the behind-the-scenes material that was still integrated in some of the fan's canon timeline.

It doesn't fit. It's needlessly crammed in there. It's forced filler if there ever was such a thing.



Contradictions are still contradictions no matter how much you weigh it. And poor writing is still poor writing no matter if the re-telling is viewed as non-canon.



If he's mistranslated then our we to presume he's treating it as a full canon entry as well? If so then the blame still goes to Capcom, and once more you'd have to wait for the "supplemental material and later games" to make this entry work in your timeline if the game itself fails to deliver a straightforward canon outline.

But everything about the game suggests that the roles of these characters are meant to be exploited. As I mentioned before you're not playing as the USS to preserve the canon. The only people I can see refusing to complete their missions are people bent on keeping the characters alive, but why? From a narrative standpoint that would be out of character for Vector to refuse to kill Leon Kennedy.

Nope. I'm sorry, but repeating this doesn't make it true. There's no contradiction at all. Combat data from the prototype is still necessary to ensure the new model doesn't suffer from the exact same complications. They ended up discovering that Tyrants couldn't be actively controlled very well. Hence Nemesis-T. The only actual difference between the T-002 and the early T-103 was their appearance.

I'm too tired to gather together all of the information right now, but I'll explain the whole thing in full detail later.



That seems to be what he's implying.

Which is meaningless if the new models are already active. At that point it's beating a dead horse. You'd might as well take combat data from the most active capable tyrant on the line if your goal is to further advance the research. The leftovers don't get you anywhere at this point. It's a useless add on to create further confusion.



Implying and confirming are different. At this point if its confirmation then judging the game on its place in the canon gets you about as far as the others do at this rate. Which is hardly judging at all. So good luck with that future archives book or whatever outside Capcom source helps you throw the game in your timeline. Hope you find the insight you're looking for.