I didn't play enough of it because as I said, I didn't like it. In the past, I've dismissed disliking a game's presentation as a scapegoat to play it, but there I was with the game (the good version too). You probably feel the same way about GOW, so let's leave it at that.

Now, if the game has in fact as many weapons as NGII and the long movelist per weapon (full list is available when a weapon is maxed out) or longer, then I take back what I said partially.

The bold part applies to every action game worth its salt (GOW excepted since action isn't its strong suit). Strictly speaking of NG, the standard shuriken is basically the cancel button (in addition to ninpo, jump, and dodge). NG1 has armlets, and the concept of i-frames, just frames, and of course UT isn't something new.

From what I played of Bayonetta, it felt like a mishmash of DMC and NG as I said. I think that's a fair assessment. It's not the holy grail of action games (I consider NGB and NGS to be that)

Maybe if I were an anime fan or liked J-pop, things would've been different *shrugs*



This can be applied to NG too, which is niche for different reasons. The difference is that the modern NG series goes back to 2004 when the genre was more relevant in the mainstream, and that carried over and sales were a bit better than Bayonetta. Between the two versions, Tecmo has 1.5 million shipped.

Bayonetta had an uphill battle in 2010, and that's not even including some of the negative press they got with the PS3 version. Granted, it made money and Kamiya hasn't been very subtle with his sequel hints.

King - I understand your responce, but I'm not trying to sit here and nitpick reasons as to why is or isn't a good game, I'd dedicate further personal issues if that was the case. But I'm not. What I'm saying is looking at the game at a critical point of view from how an average gamer would feel about it and why it just don't get comments by the public enough.

I fully accept what the game can do and I've seen enough from people to know too. I'm not sitting here saying the complexities of the gameplay are problematic in and of itself, as if the mechanics were broken or wrong - but your responce is further evidence to me of why a general gamer won't play it. They don't want to learn cancels that feel complex, use more than basic combos, and play through the game without as steep a curve. It's a game that sits outside the confines of... a "socially acceptable" award winner. I know it sounds harsh, but I'm not meaning it to be.

I love as well as you mention the one button thing. I think you don't realise that the average person who has a game seem too hard, then tell them "hey use this one button easy easy mode" thing, kinda feels insulted about it? People don't mind help, they don't mind easier modes, but I get the feeling the reason no one has ever made something like that before is because it would make you as a player feel fairly worthless, and then why would you want to play it.

Citing things that sell well and do well critically is usually a sign of where they get noms and awards. They're games that fundimentally are easy to access and draw their base in, but offer complexity and challenge in higher modes and extended, often online play. It's not that each game doesn't have issues or detractors, but more that the general populace has been more positive in greater numbers; across reviewers and gamers.

I probably should have done what SG commented on and drawn comparisons between Bayonetta and Ninja Gaiden because they share a lot of simularties in difficulty curve, general reaction, and hardcore fan base. I've had this discussion with others about the depth of fighters as well. Your hardcore fans will get into heavy, long, and chain combos; reversals; breakers; they will take the average player to school over a game. This group is large in of itself, but compared to the number of people who play fighters in general; small but vocal. Bayonetta is perfectly suited to those who want depth out of an action game, but I just really think those people are more of a minority which is why there hasn't been a lot.

I guess the one thing that I have to say as my final nail in this as a topic of conversation for me is that the ratings for the game by critics were high which means I think critical "non-viewer" awards to me. Average scores between the two platforms is 85-90%, the people who reviewed the game saw the differences the game offered a lot of complexity and change from other offerings. But it was just end the end a hard sell to the public. And hey, this topic only came up because Bayonetta didn't get a mention at the VGA's. Considering the "quality" of it as an actual award in the world, I don't think this is a loss for the game (or any others that missed out). And even given my comments, I expect in the coming weeks as various outlets do their best of awards, IGN, 1up, Gamespot, etc. etc. Bayonetta will be making appereances and winning critical awards still because there are crtics out there who enjoyed it even if the mass public didn't support it.

Thing is the game is accessible, there really should be no detractors from its playability because everything can either be given to you, or you can work toward it yourself. Sure a one button mode sounds a bit demeaning, there are actually 2 forms of easy (Easy normal and Easy automatic) theres also countless ways to cheat. Overall its a very easy game to play, much easier then say Ninja Gaiden which is far less accessible because it offers pretty much no help at all (which is what I personally prefer)

Also what the populace thinks is not my business, I know that sounds harsh but I judge things a bit more objectively. Whats the point of making a good game if its not going to be recognized as such? Why should anyone care about making games when people talk about GOW3 on the VGAs and G4 like it has a wealth of depth. the gaming populace is just skitzoid at times, they'll nominate a broken game like Demon's Souls for being hard then crap on a game like Fire emblem for being hard. (note I love Demon Souls its what a dungeon crawler should be, nice and broke but I also love Breath of Fire 5 and Brandish)

Actually the action crowd was a depth crowd until GOW came along. Which is what annoys me so much. Its hard to have someone talk down to you about action games when you've cleared instant kill in Bezerk(and for that matter know of Millennium Falcon's existence beyond Star Wars) and done a no healing run in Ninja Gaiden Black. I don't mean you, but it sucks that so often I get crap for liking Bayonetta and not GOW, then getting an hour long lecture about why GOW is so much deeper. Even then I own all the GOW games and don't hate them, they're just no my first pick of action game.

lol I didn't watch the VGAs, I was happy Red Dead got a few but to be completely honest there was just so much wrong with the whole deal that you're right, its not really any loss that Bayonetta, Darksiders or Castlevania wasn't mentioned. The best way to describe the VGAs is the "Hype Train Award"

All in all the VGAs were crap, I think we can all agree on that.

Not even sure where this conversation is coming from, it's all blatantly obvious. Mainstream titles will win at a mainstream awards show. No matter how good Bayonetta is, SG79 is completely right, it doesn't appeal to the masses and in a way you should be happy it doesn't. It allows the game to be what it is and not cater towards any one side, thus dumbing it down like many other series have suffered from. VGA's are always pretty lame.

I get what you mean, its just difficult when people treat you like you know nothing about games because you were unimpressed by their "award winners". The only one I cared about was red dead, everything else that won was unimpressive to me. Admittedly I'm biased towards Red Dead in the same way I'm biased towards Bioshock and The Darkness.

People like us built this industry, but now we're as good as chopped liver, meh.

oh that reminds me anyone grabbing necromachina when it hits?

What makes us chopped liver?
And there was a ton of great games represented at the vga's

Yeah, I'll be getting SEGAGAGA 2.

XD complete with Segata Sanshiro "missile" intro.

Seeing as how Kratos is going to be a ps3 exclusive, I wonder what the XBOX 360 exclusive is? (Assuming XBOX 360 is getting an exclusive character)

WELCOME TO DIE

X-Men is up